Re: must disagree...
Lyn J. Mangiameli
>To take these in order:
1"Mount your Glasser, or other high vanadium gouge(or M2 for that matter), in a sturdy vise, and, with a hefty hammer, bend it over 30 degrees. Oh, can't do that without it snapping? Well, then 3V has some attributes that higher vanadium steels don't(or any other tools steel we know about) and perhaps these attributes are significant, leading to the possibility that 3V isn't simply a cheap(inferior) version of 10V as you propose. "
But Bill, you haven't demonstrated that these attributes do have any significance to turners. Frankly, your "experiment" seems meaningless to me in the context of woodturning. I have subjected Glaser gouges to some brutal punishment when roughing out large out of round blanks, and the gouge shafts have neither bent nor broken, just what I want in a good gouge.
2. "The differences with 10V are toughness and wear resistance. 3V is much tougher and with wear resistance between M2 (traditional tool steel)and 10V. Now is the improvement in toughness worth the sacrifice in wear resistance? We propose that for a skew and scraper it may be. Skew tips won't break and wire scraper edges (burs) will form easier and last longer."
I've used Glaser skews and scrapers as my primary tools of those types for over five years now. I've never had any of those tools, chip, break or bend. I form my scraper burrs with the Veritas scraping tool burnisher (i.e., fixed carbide rod) and find the burr retention to be easy to achieve with that tool, easy to control, and the life of that burr is outstanding compared to all other scrapers I own (including those using Tantung blades). I don't think you have conducted the comparisions to empirically state that 3V has shown any real world advantages compared to A11 and V-15.
3. "There is another issue that we have not evaluated. Some respected turners have claimed that the high vanadium steels do not take as fine an edge as carbon steel or M2. We don't know as we have not worked with 10V. However, 3V is considered a cutlery steel and it most certainly will take as fine an edge as any steel as proven in plane irons and chisels. "
I'm at fault for not providing a proper response to your private quiries on this question, but I shall make some comments now. I am so weary of those with no objective empirical evidence going around propogating and perpetuating such inaccurate information, that is largely a hold over from the early days of some manufacturers using inferior carbides for table saw blade teeth and router bit inserts. Furthermore, I find it amusing if not ludicrous that these assertions often come from the same individuals who find an edge right off an 80 grit wheel to suit them just fine.
As long as you are using a sufficiently hard sharpening abrasive (such as the diamonds you are fond of), any of the CPM steels can achieve an edge everybit as sharp as is achieved with Carbon and HSS.
As you know, handplane blades are regularly sharpened to a level of edge refinement which far surpasses any edge used by woodturners (with the possible exception of a handful of skew sharpening fanatics, including me). I regularly refine hand plane and bench chisel edges to .5 micron. I have worked with O1, A2 (both Cryoed and not), A11, CPM10, M2, M4, unspecified HSS, and laminated blue steel Japanese style blades. Used with very challenging woods with a top performing plane, I can discern no difference at all between them when freshly sharpened (some blades, of course, have longer edge retention). If the sharpened performance of these blades with such an extremely refined edge is indistinguishable, I have no doubt that such differences are no less indistinguishable with turning tools that are almost universally sharpened to a much less refined edge.
As an aside, Jerry Glaser also has made up some V-15 handplane blades for himself and has privately reported his satisfaction with them (and Jerry knows as much about hand tool steels as he does about turning tool steels).
4. "With luck we will inspire others to investigate this steel, as others have investigated this steel for plane irons, with favorable results. As a result of this greater experience with 3V we can come to a valid conclusion whether it offers improved performance."
Yes, I think this is a commendable desire and I greatly admire the experimentation and sharing of information you have provide to both hand tool users and woodturners. I am not surprised at all that CPM3V works well for hand tools (I would suspect it is exceptional for mortice chisels) and may prove a desirable steel for woodturning as well. However, there just isn't enough comparative information to determine for what woodturning tools it will be most appropriate. I suspect that it will be a desirable steel for skews and low bevel angle spindle gouges (where V-15, for example, is a bit too brittle and susceptible to chipping). It may also be good for narrow parting tools.
I do appreciate your enthusiasm for 3V, but I also am very familiar with the wide ranging metallurgical knowledge and depth of tool making experience possessed by Jerry Glaser. Jerry's decisions have been based not only on theorectical knowledge, but the feedback from hundreds if not thousands of tool owners. He is not wedded to any particular steel manufacturer or source, and continues to this day to keep up on the latest tool steel offerings, and engage in R&D. His decisions consistently have been sound based on my practical experience using and comparing tools.
