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BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

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BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#1

BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

Shawn - in CT

>Hi,

I've been finishing everything with tung oil to now. Just finished a couple of poplar platters with BLO - yep, they've darkened really fast! I've read Russ's articles and many previous posts but didn't find definite answers to:

1) Do tung-oil finished pieces darken to the same extent eventually?

2) Given BLO or tung oil, is it a better rule to use tung oil on light colored woods? (though I'm not sure I don't like the darkening; opinions?)

2) I've been wearing latex gloves while applying finishes but are tung oil, BLO, or turpentine bad to get on one's skin?

Thanks

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#2

If they are, I'm doomed

Mike Schwing from Maryland

>Since early childhood I've had hands splattered with turpentine working on boats. Still have all 10..wait..I'll be damned..11 fingers.

Its still my favorite solvent where applicable, the smell brings me right back to spring boat prep.

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#3

Re: If they are, I'm doomed

Andi Wolfe

>Organic solvents do pose a health hazard, and can be absorbed through the skin. Longterm health problems associated with organic solvents include nervous system disorders, cancer and damage to the liver. Please, use gloves and protect yourself from absorbing these nasty compounds.

Just for kicks, here's the safety info from OSHA on terpentine:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/turpentine/

Andi Wolfe

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#4

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

Steven Russell

>Hello,

Your questions require an indepth answer... In the past I have been hammered for my long posts by a few individuals, so I will try and give you the nickle tour to appease those who prefer one paragraph or less answers.

Here is a bit of an overview on Linseed and Tung Oil, excerpted from volume 1 of my educational CD-Rom titled "Woodturning with Steven D. Russell"... To understand the colour changes that occur, you must first understand the basics of how the oil is produced, refined and the process it undergoes to cure into a hard film. Some of this may be a bit heavy for you, but bear with me for a wee bit.

Linseed oil is derived from the seeds of the flax plant (Linum usitatissimum L.) and is the oldest cultivated plant in Europe. Linseed oil is obtained by various methods including pre-expelling, followed by hexane extraction of the resulting press cake. The oil is refined to remove phosphatides and gums, which naturally occur in the oil. Subsequent refining through post-desliming with sulfuric acid and phosphoric acid yields an oil with virtually no traces of phosphatides or gums.

Further post-treatments include lye neutralization and earth bleaching, which yields a very light drying oil. The natural odour of linseed oil is removed through vacuum steam distillation, which removes lingering odorous volatile compounds like aldehydes and keytones.

Dewaxing the oil is the last step in the refining process, which removes the thin layer of wax that covers each linseed. Dewaxing is accomplished by cooling the oil to 4� Centigrade. The cooled Linseed oil is then held at this temperature until the waxes have crystallized. The resulting crystallized wax is then removed by mechanical filtration.

Tung oil is obtained from the seed kernels of the Tung tree, Aleuritis fordii (Chinese tung oil) or Aleuritis cordata, syn. vernica and verrucosa (Japanese tung oil). The principal source of raw tung oil is China and South America. The nuts of Aleuritis montana, Aleuritis trisperma (kekuna oil) and A. moluccana or A. triloba (lumbang oil) also produce oils with properties that are similar to Chinese tung oil. Tung oil is produced by mechanical pressing, or by solvent extraction. The resulting oil is then filtered to remove any impurities.

Drying oils, including linseed and tung, can be defined as liquid vegetable oils that, when applied in thin layers to a non-absorbent substrate, will dry in the air to form a solid film. This drying is a result of polymerisation by the action of atmospheric oxygen, i.e. autoxidation. The resultant films are typically hard, non-melting and are usually insoluble in organic solvents. (This varies with the particular drying oil) Semi-drying oils, like soybean oil and some nut oils, form tacky, somewhat sticky films when dried. Non-drying oils like mineral oil undergo no marked increase in viscosity upon exposure to air. Drying oils are typically subdivided into three main groups for classification purposes, nonconjugated, conjugated and other oils.

Nonconjugated oils, such as linseed, soybean, sunflower and safflower oil, are fatty oils that contain polyunsaturated fatty acids, whose double bonds are separated by at least two single bonds (i.e. isolated double bonds make up the nonconjugated oils). Conjugated oils on the other hand, such as tung, oiticica, dehydrated castor oil and isomerised nonconjugated oils are polyunsaturated fatty acids whose double bonds are partly or fully conjugated (i.e.alternate single and double bonds in the carbon chain are the fatty acids). Other oils include those with multifunctional fatty acids, which acquire their drying characteristics by chemical conversion, such as raw castor oil and tall oil.

The place of cultivation and its climate can alter the fatty acid spectrum of a drying oil. The high proportion of linolenic acid in nonconjugated oils, like linseed oil, affects its drying characteristics. High concentrations of linolenic acid can result in rapid drying, yellowing and brittleness. Oils with low or no linolenic acid, like soybean and safflower oil, obtain their drying characteristics from high levels of triglycerides, which contain linoleic acid. The drying of these oils produces flexible films with very little yellowing.

Conjugated oils like tung oil are considerably more reactive than nonconjugated oils. Conjugated double bonds favour polymerisation and oxidation and dry more rapidly than nonconjugated oils, offering excellent surface-dry, through-dry and hardness. The resultant film offers a high resistance to yellowing and increased resistance to water and alkalis. The principal drying component in tung oil is eleostearic acid, a conjugated octadecatrienoic acid. The oleic acid contained in the fatty oils and unsaturated fatty acids plays a small part in the drying process as well. The saturated fatty acids present, however, act only as plasticizers.

The drying of films typically progresses in three overlapping steps: 1.) Induction - Through a process known as autocatalysis, the oxygen uptake, which is slow at first, steadily increases. Factors such as temperature, light and heavy metals/inhibitors in the oil affect the overall uptake rate.

2.) Initiation - As the film continues to take up oxygen, its mass increases. The double bonds in the film begin to rearrange and polar groups such as hydroxyl and hydroperoxy develop in the film. This leads to the association of molecules, through forces such as hydrogen bonding.

3.) Cross-Linking - As the number of double bonds in the film begins to diminish, larger molecules form, and volatile and non-volatile carbonyl compounds are generated. The exact chemical reactions, as well as the structure of the film-forming polymers, are not completely understood.

The initial autoxidation step in nonconjugated oils is dehydrogenation of the unsaturated fatty acid by molecular oxygen, which forms a radical. This starts a catalytic radical chain reaction that increases incrementally with time, leading to the formation of a hydroperoxide. At low levels, the hydroperoxides produced during autoxidation decompose to form free alkoxy and hydroxyl radicals. Higher levels of hydroperoxides form free radicals through biomolecular disproportionation. The resultant free radicals react in various ways to accelerate the autoxidation process.

The drying of tung oil varies considerably from linseed oil. Tung oil typically absorbs approximately 12% oxygen (linseed oil absorbs approx. 16%) and quickly forms a skin on the surface. Since less oxygen is absorbed, the viscosity of the oil increases at a faster rate. Unlike the hydroperoxide formation during autoxidation in linseed oil, tung oil forms cyclic peroxides. The methyl eleostearate that is formed has a higher molecular mass than linoleic acid esters.

The direct attack on the double bonds by oxygen forms cyclic peroxides. The resultant reaction of the peroxides with allylic methylene groups, leads to the formation of radicals. This creates a radical chain reaction that forms polymers. The molecular mass created during tung oil polymerisation is less than that achieved through linseed oil polymerisation. To speed up the film formation and curing process, manufacturers add �driers� to the oils.

Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are known as siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as Boiled Oils.Traditionally, driers contained combinations of oil-soluble metal salts like Cobalt and/or Manganese with Zirconium, Lead or Calcium salts of 2-ethylhexanoic acid or naphtenic acids. Cobalt and Manganese salts act as surface driers and aid in the drying of the film on the surface, where oxygen concentrations are the highest.

Lead and Zirconium salts catalyse throughout the film and are known as through driers. To avoid the use of Lead, which is highly toxic, modern siccatives employ blends of Cobalt and Zirconium. This combination reduces surface drying speed, promoting even drying throughout the substrate.

Calcium salts are sometimes used as well, mainly to reduce the amounts of other driers that may be needed. Various other compounds may also be present in some siccatives including Beryllium, Cadmium and Nickel.

Both nonconjugated and conjugated drying oils like linseed and tung can be polymerised by heating under an inert atmosphere. These polymerised oils are then referred to as �Bodied Oils.� To achieve the higher viscosities of bodied oils, nonconjugated oils are heated up to 320� Centigrade and conjugated oils are heated up to 240� Centigrade. This increase in viscosity, or "body," is caused from thermal decomposition of naturally occurring hydroperoxides. This decomposition yields free radicals that contribute to a limited amount of cross-linking.

The heating of tung oil must be carefully monitored, or the polymerisation will lead to gelation of the oil. The viscosity can also be increased by passing air through the oil (known as Blown Oils) at high temperatures up to 150� Centigrade. Reactions similar to those observed in cross-linking cause oligomerization of the oil.

Polymerised tung and linseed oils dry faster, harder and are more durable than raw oils. In addition, polymerised oils produce a smooth glossy finish, whereas raw oils produce a matte sheen. This matte sheen is a result of the natural expansion that takes place during polymerisation. This expansion creates a very finely textured surface that appears to the naked eye as a matte finish.

Some highly specialized polymerised tung oils are processed at extremely high pressures and temperatures. These are called Thermalized Tung oils and are used in the manufacture of nitro-cellulose lacquers. This process improves the drying, hardness and lustre of the oil.

The yellowing of linseed oil is thought to be caused when conjugated unsaturated hydroperoxides are converted into conjugated unsaturated ketones. These unsaturated ketones can produce long-chain coloured polyenes. Additionally, if 1,4-diketones are formed during the drying, enol tautomers can react with trace amounts of atmospheric ammonia.

This produces a substituted pyrrole, which can be converted into a coloured product by oxidation, or by condensation in the presence of formic acid. Coloured metal siccatives can also contribute to the discoloration and/or yellowing of linseed oil. To alleviate the yellowing, saturated aliphatic aldehydes may be added to the oil.

Ok, you now have a good idea of how the oils are produced, refined and the process through which they polymerise. Many factors can influence the colour of the oils, including driers which can also impact any post application colour changes.

Linseed oil in particular has a nasty habit of darkening after application. To date, no chemical treatment can reverse, or forestall the darkening of Linseed oil. Over time, the dark colour may eventually turn to a near black colour. Many factors can influence this colour change and the total amount of discolouration that will occur. For this reason, I prefer to limit use of Linseed based finishes in my studio.

Your saftey concerns are real when working with or applying finishes that contain toxic solvents or driers. Your skin is a poor protective layer when using these finishes. The toxic effects of solvents vary between human, animal and plant organisms.

Many factors can influence the nature, severity and probability of toxic injury. These include, but are not limited to, the number of exposures, magnitude of exposure, route of exposure, time of dosing, formulation and impurities present in the toxic substance, as well as individual metabolic differences.

Acute damage may result from short-term exposure to high solvent doses, whereas the absorption of smaller doses over longer periods can lead to chronic damage and sensitisation. Chronic damage is often accompanied by an acquired tolerance for the solvent, which can lead to late detection of the damaging effects of the solvent.

Most cases of solvent poisoning are related to inhalation of solvent fumes. Inhaled vapours pass via the lungs and blood, where they accumulate in high lipid content tissues like brain, nerve, bone marrow, liver and kidney tissues.

The damage may occur in two forms. The cells can be damaged directly by the solvents, or indirectly by their decomposition products. In addition to inhalation, solvents may enter the body through cutaneous, or gastrointestinal absorption.

Symptoms of acute solvent poisoning may include dizziness, drowsiness, severe headache, loss of consciousness and other narcotic effects on the central nervous system. Chronic poisoning symptoms may be initially undetectable, but subsequently cause significant organ damage according to the particular solvent involved.

Chronic exposure to organic solvents has been associated with numerous neurotoxic effects, including permanent brain and nervous system damage in some studies.

Solvents dissolve the natural fatty layer of the skin (known as defatting), allowing cracks, microorganisms and dirt to penetrate the skin easier, causing infection. In addition, solvents can cause inflammation, dermatitis, burning or blistering of the skin. Allergic reactions can also occur after sensitisation of the skin, but vary widely depending upon individual tolerances or susceptibilities. Turpentine oil in particular can trigger allergic hypersensitivity reactions of an allergic nature in some individuals.

Gum Turpentine: (aka: Spirit of Turpentine, Oil of Turpentine, Wood Turpentine) This is pure essential plant oil, which is obtained by distillation of the resin exudates (balsam or turpentine) from living trees in the genus Pinis. Contains Terpenes.

The resin exudates are distilled at temperatures up to 180� Centigrade. It is a high quality paint solvent, which is stronger than paint thinner and dries at a slightly faster evaporation rate. Turpentines are colourless to pale yellow liquids, with a low viscosity and a characteristic odour. Turpentines are miscible in most organic solvents, but are immiscible in water.

Turpentine is used primarily to thin oil based paints, stains and varnishes to improve levelling, reduce application viscosity or increase penetration. If added in excessive amounts, it will reduce the overall lustre level. Turpentine is also a good solvent for hydrocarbon resins, waxes, fats and oils. Turpentine accelerates the drying of coatings and paints (particularly drying oils) by peroxide formation.

It is miscible with ethanol, aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons. Its dissolution properties are better than white spirit, and it is frequently used in addition to white spirit in alkyd resin and oil-based coatings.

Health Concerns:

Eye: Contact may cause irritation and severe burns.

Skin: Causes skin irritation. May cause sensitisation, an allergic reaction, which becomes evident upon re-exposure.

Ingestion: Causes gastrointestinal irritation with nausea and vomiting. May cause central nervous system depression, headache, dizziness, drowsiness, nausea, collapse, unconsciousness and possible death from respiratory failure. Aspiration into the lungs may lead to pulmonary edema, or pneumonitis.

Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. Aspiration may cause respiratory swelling and pneumonitis (inflammation in the lungs).

Chronic Exposure: May cause kidney and bladder damage.

Odourless Mineral Spirits: This is a specially refined, low odour version of traditional mineral spirits. Contains Stoddard Solvent. Odourless Mineral Spirits are used to thin oil base paints, enamels, stains, varnishes and polyurethane�s to improve levelling, reduce application viscosities and increase penetration. Odourless Mineral Spirits is an excellent solvent for oil and wax.

Health Concerns: Same as Mineral Spirits

Using Odourless Mineral Spirits exposes you to benzene, which is known to cause cancer, and toluol, which is known to cause birth defects and other reproductive harm.

Mineral Spirits: (aka: Stoddard Solvent, Paint Thinner, Varsol, Solvasol) Mineral Spirits are clear, colourless liquids used to thin oil base paints, stains, varnishes and polyurethane�s to improve levelling, reduce application viscosities and increase penetration. Contains Stoddard Solvent.

Health Concerns:

Eye: Causes redness, swelling and irritation. May cause chemical conjunctivitis and corneal damage.

Skin: May be harmful if absorbed through the skin. May cause irritation, redness, drying, defatting and dermatitis. May cause cyanosis of the extremities.

Ingestion: Causes dizziness, drowsiness, cough, sore throat, headache, gastrointestinal irritation, nausea and vomiting. May cause central nervous system depression, collapse, unconsciousness, coma and possible death. Aspiration into the lungs may lead to pulmonary edema, or pneumonitis.

Inhalation: Vapours are harmful. May affect the brain or nervous system causing headache, dizziness, nausea, fatigue and loss of consciousness. Causes nose and throat irritation. High vapour concentrations can cause drowsiness, suffocation, or a burning sensation in the chest.

Chronic Exposure: Repeated skin contact can cause dermatitis. May cause liver damage.

Using Mineral Spirits exposes you to benzene, which is known to cause cancer, and toluol, which is known to cause birth defects and other reproductive harm.

The solvents and chemicals woodturners regularly use can range from somewhat benign compounds, to highly toxic compounds with known carcinogenic (cancer causing), mutagenic (damage to DNA that is heritable), teratogenic (causing structural or functional abnormalities in the fetus or embryo), or neurotoxic effects. Do not take chances with your health! You should be wearing the appropriate protective gloves when using finishes and products that contain harmful solvents or driers.

Humm... It seems as if I have given you the 25-cent answer, instead of the nickle answer, please accept my apologies. Some things cannot be answered in one paragraph. I better stop here or I'm gonna hear from the "Quickie Answer Only" gurus.

Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell

Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio and Advanced Research Laboratory

The Woodlands, Texas

Email: benzer@flash.net

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#5

The Simple answers...

Russ Fairfield

>1) Do tung-oil finished pieces darken to the same extent eventually?

NO. Linseed Oil in any form will turn darker faster than Tung Oil. Will they eventually reach the same dark color?? I have been told by the finishing experts that, in the end, they will reach the same color. I haven't lived long enough yet to know if that is true.

2) Given BLO or tung oil, is it a better rule to use tung oil on light colored woods? (though I'm not sure I don't like the darkening; opinions?)

(My opinion) It is better to use a Tung Oil finish on ALL woods. The opposite of "darker faster" would be "brighter longer". The darkening effect of Linseed Oil products on a dark wood such as Walnut will also reduce the prominance of grain coloring and pattern as the wood darkens with time.

3) I've been wearing latex gloves while applying finishes but are tung oil, BLO, or turpentine bad to get on one's skin?

Rubber gloves of any kind are a good idea for all finishes and solvents. There are good reasons to wear them that have nothing to do with any health hazards. Keeping our hands clean, and preventing dryness and cracking of the skin can be reasons enough for using gloves to handle most finishes and solvents.

I read through Steve Russell's long message, and I still have no idea whether he aggrees with me or not. {8>)

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#6

Thanks

Shawn - in CT

>Steven - thanks for the great info!

Russ - thanks for the answers!

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#7

Re: The Simple answers...

Steven Russell

>Hello Russ,

While I always respect your counsel, I was surprised to read your statement that rubber gloves were good to use with all finishes and solvents. I'm sure you did not mean that literally did you? Rubber gloves are a poor choice for many solvents and should not be considered as a universal glove for working with all toxic solvents, or finishes.

For a woodturner, choosing the right glove to wear can be a difficult, if not daunting task. There are many types, styles and brands of protective gloves on the market. Whilst a particular glove might give excellent protection against Turpentine, it will dissolve in Xylene. Some gloves may be resistant to the liquid chemical, but allow permeation of the vapour.

Common dishwashing and surgical gloves are poor choices for many of the chemicals, solvents and metal driers found in typical wood finishes. To protect yourself properly, you must match the appropriate glove material with the chemicals present in the products you will be using and the length of time you will be exposed to the chemicals.

To complicate the matter further, there are numerous elastomers available including Chloroprene Rubber (Neoprene), Natural and Pure Gum Rubber, Nitrile Butadiene Rubber (Buna N / Nitrile), Chloro-Isobutylene Isoprene Rubber (Chlorobutyl), Chloro-Sulfonyl Polyethlene (Hypalon), Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer (Ethylene Propylene Rubber, Nordel, Royalene), Fluorocarbon Elastomer (Viton, Fluorel) Tetrafluoro-ethylene Resin (Teflon) and Dimethyl Polysiloxane (Silicone).

Common names for protective glove materials include: 4H (Polyethylene and Ethylene Vinyl Alcohol) and Barricade which are state-of-the-art laminated films, Butyl Rubber, Neoprene, Nitrile Rubber, Natural Rubber, Polyethylene, Polyvinyl Alcohol and Polyvinyl Chloride to name a few.

Unfortunately, there is no �universal� glove that can be used for every situation, with every chemical. You must first identify the chemicals involved in the finishes you use and then, find the best combination of materials that will provide the appropriate amount of protection for your intended usage.

Factors to consider when making an elastomer decision include the physical conditions you will experience, like temperature, abrasion, cuts and puncturing. Also, the specific chemical involved, or combination of chemicals present in the solvent or finish, as well as the estimated contact time with the chemical should be considered.

Heavy or prolonged exposures will require different types and types of elastomers, than those suitable for brief duration exposures. What type of specific features you will need?

� Smooth, or textured glove surface?

� Length - above the wrist, or to the elbow?

� Supported or unsupported?

� Insulation, dexterity and tactile needs?

� Cuffs, or no cuffs?

� Do you want a single use disposable glove, or a reusable glove?

By answering these questions and others that may be unique to your particular exposure situation, you can select the glove that offers the best combination of features and protection for the chemical and physical hazards involved. Here is a brief overview of common elastomers you may wish to consider in your elastomer decisions...

Natural Rubber � (Polyisoprene) Natural rubber is obtained from the milky white liquid called latex, which is found in more than 200 plant sources, including Hevea Brasiliensis, the Rubber Tree. Natural rubber gloves offer excellent grip, dexterity and tensile strength. They provide good tear and puncture resistance and protection from some water-based chemicals like acids and caustics, but limited protection for alcohols and ketones. You should avoid contact with organic solvents, oils, grease or hydrocarbon derivatives. The latex present may pose a significant health risk for some allergic individuals.

Neoprene - (Poly-Chloroprene) Developed in 1931, neoprene is a polymer of the monomer chloroprene, the raw materials of which are acetylene and hydrochloric acid. Neoprene gloves have many of the same characteristics as natural rubber gloves, like flexibility and softness, yet offer increased abrasion, cut and chemical resistance. Neoprene gloves are generally recommended for organic and inorganic acids, organic solvents, oils and some petrochemicals.

Nitrile � (Acrylonitrile-Butadiene rubber) Buna rubber was developed in 1935 and is produced by copolymerisation, the polymerisation of two monomers - butadiene and another comonomer, with natrium as a catalyst. Buna-N uses acrylonitrile as the additional comonomer, which is produced from cyanide. Nitrile is a synthetic copolymer that is recommended for some petrochemicals, oils and greases. You should avoid contact with solvents that contain ketones, oxidizing acids and organic compounds containing nitrogen.

PVC - (Polyvinyl Chloride) PVC is a low cost, synthetic thermoplastic polymer prepared from the organic compound vinyl chloride. It offers limited protection from chemical exposures (some acids and bases). Solvents containing ketones, or aromatic solvents should be avoided.

Butyl � (Isobutylene) Developed in 1940, Butyl rubber polymers offer the tightest molecular structure of any polymer. It is prepared by copolymerisation of isobutylene, with either butadiene or isoprene. Butyl gloves provide excellent chemical resistance to gases and ketones. Butyl rubber is severely damaged by fuels, as well as aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbon solvents. Butyl gloves are used by the military for protection from chemical warfare agents.

Viton - (Fluoroelastomer) Viton gloves are very resistant to aromatic hydrocarbons such as Benzene, Toluene and Xylene. Viton gloves are used in situations where extremely toxic, carcinogenic, or hazardous chemicals are handled. Due to its extremely high cost (up to $160.00 USD per pair), it is usually reserved for certain situations where other gloves will not work.

Blended chemicals present special elastomer selection problems, because each chemical in the blend must be considered when deciding which glove to use. Lacquer thinner is a classic example of a blend of chemicals that presents a special handling hazard and is quite common in many wood turners workshops.

Lacquer thinners contain a blend of several different chemicals, but will typically include a Ketone like Methyl Ethyl Ketone or Acetone, an Alcohol like Methanol or Isopropanol and an Aromatic solvent like Toluene, or Xylene. Additional chemicals present in the blend, may also present a challenge when trying to determine the best elastomer to use.

Ketones degrade elastomers like PVC, Nitrile and Viton. Alcohols degrade PVA and aromatics will degrade PVC, Butyl, Natural Rubber and Neoprene elastomers. Therefore, to provide adequate protection for your hands, the only choice left may be a laminated film glove, such as Barricade or 4H.

Most woodturners are surprised to learn that a common product like lacquer thinner requires the most state-of-the-art chemical barrier available. This is because the blend of chemicals present in lacquer thinner works synergistically to degrade all commonly available elastomer materials.

In order to determine the type and style of gloves you need, you need to analyse the chemicals, solvents and finishes that you have in your workshop. Obtain MSDS safety sheets for each product. These material safety sheets are available from the manufacturer, or stockist and will list any hazardous chemicals in the products and may offer protection guidance as well.

There are also numerous Internet sources that list MSDS or COSHH safety sheets for various chemicals and products. When you have accumulated the necessary chemical ingredient information, consult the product manufacturer, or safety glove manufacturer, for specific recommendations of which type of chemical resistant gloves to purchase.

Please do not take my post the wrong way Russ, but I respectfully and humbly ask your permission to clarify your statement on using Rubber gloves with all finishes and solvents. Take care and all the best to you and yours!

Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell

Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio and Advanced Research Laboratory

The Woodlands, Texas

Email: benzer@flash.net

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#8

Cliff Notes needed

Ron Sardo in PA

>Thanks Steve for two very informative essays.

While I did read evry word I'm still a bit confused. If you had to pick two gloves, one for Mineral Spirits and one for Lacquer thinner, which would be a good choice. (Besides the $160.00 pair). And are there disposable one available?

TIA

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#9

"Rubber" as a generic term...

Russ Fairfield

>Actually, I used "rubber" as a generic term that is all inclusive, and knowing that not all "rubber" fits all solvents.

When I use "rubber" gloves, they are the cheap yellow Latex variety that I get from Ace Harware, 2 pair for $1. I buy those because I have large hands, and they fit. They do get a little sticky from some solvents, but I have never had them melt on my hands or become unusable. They are usually fine to use again by the next day, and if they aren't, I throw them away.

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#10

Re: Cliff Notes needed

Steven Russell

>Hello Ron,

Do you desire a supported or unsupported glove? Manufacturers� have many different types and styles of gloves available, including supported and unsupported styles.

Supported gloves are manufactured by dipping a woven or knitted cloth liner into a liquid glove compound, like neoprene, or nitrile. The inner liner �supports� the outer coating and adds strength to the glove. However, supported gloves generally offer less tactile feedback than unsupported styles.

Unsupported gloves are manufactured by dipping Porcelain hand forms into a liquid glove compound, without any liner material to support the compound. Upon drying, the film is removed from the form, leaving a moulded glove.

A typical latex glove would be an example of this type of �unsupported� glove. Some unsupported gloves feature a �flocked� inner coating, or powder that increases user comfort by absorbing perspiration.

Thinner, unsupported gloves allow greater dexterity and tactile feedback than the thicker and heavier supported gloves. However, the thicker supported styles offer greater protection against chemicals and wear, like abrasion, cuts and puncture resistance. Which style do you prefer? How will you be using the glove? What do you estimate your exposure time will be when using the glove?

Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell

Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio and Advanced Research Laboratory

The Woodlands, Texas

Email: benzer@flash.net

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#11

Vinyl gloves work for most finishes

Andi Wolfe

>Latex (surgical type) gloves don't hold up very well for me, but the vinyl gloves do quite well - especially for polymerized tung oil, Watco Danish oil, spray acrylics, lacquers, and paints, plus polyurethane. That's the range of finishes I've used in furniture making and woodturning, so it's not an extensive survey.

I buy gloves from a laboratory supply firm (I can't find smaller sizes elsewhere), but I've seen vinyl gloves at home supply stores and hardware stores.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to use common sense. Gloves are a good investment for keeping in good health when it comes to using solvent-based finishing products.

Andi Wolfe

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#12

Re: Cliff Notes needed

Peter Teubel

>FWIW...

I use 3 different types of protective gloves.

Standard medical latex - Got a few thousand pair awhile ago for free. Good for general protection from glues and spray paint. But dissolve when used with Formby's Tung Oil Finish.

Vinyl - Got these because they hold up to Formby's. But found out they dissolve with exposure to Waterlox (my new finish of choice).

Nitryl - These are tough and seem to hold up under anything I expose them to.

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#13

Dick Hines

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

Dick Hines

>Ceeeeeeeeerap!! I hope Wally does not try to read this. He may not have that many days left at his age.

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#14

Re: Cliff Notes needed

Kirt

>Steve I for one would like to say thanks for your information, we all should appreciate the length you have gone to explain with "real facts".To often we are given opinions without substantiated proof or explanation as to why the commentator has arrived at their opinion.Some may criticize the length of your replies but I think you have given a reasonably thorough synapsis and done it at your own expense of time and shared valuable information that would have taken more time by us to collect than it took to read!! So ignore the keep it short posts,we use this forum to gather information and advice and it would be a greater service to encourage individuals such as yourself to post competent advice instead of conjecture!

Keep it up,

Turning to keep warm in the Canadian North

Kirt

Re: BLO, Tung oil, darkening, safety

#15

Re: Cliff Notes needed

Peter Teubel

>Ditto!

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.