adjacent bead technique query

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Dinyar Chavda

>Bill:

I haven't done many beads, but, in answer to your question re the intersection betwwwn the beads, asssuming that it is not very big, would it be possible/aesthetically acceptable to burn it?

If so, you can do it with a wire of appropriate thickness (make sure you do NOT wrap the wire around your fingers, but use something else like a dowel to wrap the wire around), or use a piece of wood that you have ground down to a size that fits into the groove---experiment if possible on a similar piece of wood as your spindle. Oh, and be prepared for smoke.

Dinyra

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Greg

>Bill,

What type of gouge are you using - bowl or spindle? If a bowl gouge, certainly try a spindle gouge - you should be able to get a good clean cut all the way to the bottom, laying the gouge over on its side as you go, keeping it riding the bevel.

Good point on the philosophical note - hopefully the more we learn, the easier it is to do not just a single project, but to use the honed skills to accomplish much more!

Hang in there, and maybe post a pic of your finished goal?

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I am using spindle gouge. If I go to the bottom with a shear cut on left side of the "right bead" I will scrape the side of the "left" bead with the flute edge. Could be my gouge is ground incorrectly for the task, or beads are too close(don't think so), or this part of bead should have been already done when the vee was established with skew point.

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Ron Sardo in PA

>Bill Wrote:

Question..how to best clean up the intersection between the beads?

If you are talking about sanding, there is a corded 180g sandpaper made by Mitchel. It's used in the automotive industry to clean up the ring groves in a piston. It's about $10 for about 15 yards. I picked up some at a automotive parts store.

Rolling Beads *LINK*

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Rolling beads with the skew can be done with the long point down, but the better method is with the long point up, and leading with the short point. I suggest that you read Alan Lacers article on the skew. The last paragraph deals with rolling beads.

Wally


http://www.woodturninglearn.net/skew/Skew.html

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Ric Erkes

>I have done and seen various things used to get into tight spots depending upon your confidence and available tools.

I guess the skew is the first choice, but since I grew up with a bowl gouge the skew is, for me, my last choice. My personal tool of choice is a 3/8 spindle gouge, ground with a bevel of about 80 degrees. It comes to a point at the tip. The advantages are that I am comfortable riding the bevel and leading with the tip. Being a spindle gouge, with such a sharp angle, I can roll the bevel down one side of a bead and avoid hitting the adjacent bead. It leaves a very sharply defined line between beads.

My next choice is to take a cheap "Chinese" tool (a parting tool works) and lay the tool on edge and grind a sharp 'V' point on it. This yields a bevel on both sides and can be used to define the intersection of the two beads. The majority of the bead would be done with another tool you are comfortable with.

My last choice, but I have seen it done effectively is to take a short sharp knife. I haven't tried this since the flexibility of the knife blade would bother me.

The first two methods can provide a smooth and tight enough space that sanding is not necessary.

Again, if I was better at the skew, that is the way to go, but like you, I feel your pain.

Ric

Re: adjacent bead technique query *LINK*

Bert Smith

>Bill,

I haven't seen anyone mention the Crown round point tool. I think this is exactly what you are looking for. The point will go between the beads and leave a very clean cut. The round point tool is perfect for making beads, planing cylinders, and it comes in a couple different sizes. I've had one for years, and still grab it when I begin to worry about that "last" little cut with the skew. It is almost impossible to get a catch with this tool, and it is easy to sharpen. I will try to send a link from the Packard catalog, but I think Woodcraft and Craft Supplies both sell them for around $30.

Hope this helps,

Bert


http://http://miva3.synergydns.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-crn-rndpnttl

Re: adjacent bead technique query *LINK*

Bert Smith

>Try this...


http://miva3.synergydns.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-crn-rndpnttl

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Don Evans

>Bill:

I'm curious if you are turning simese beads, in other words the center of the two doesn't go all the way down to the same diameter as the outside of each?

If so, I generally turn these with spindle gouge, staring with 3/8" and touching up the middle groove with 1/2" spindle then the finish touch to that one groove is with a spear point parting tool. All of the gouges are fingernail grind allowing reaching into small spaces and not touching adjacent sides.

If I were doing production work as you describe with 18 to do, I would grind a special tool to make them. You need thinner white wheels though and unless you make your living with it that may not be something you want to tackle. Time lost in hand making all of these would be cost prohitive in most cases. If you're getting $18000.00 for one bed like one I recently saw then they can be done by hand.

Don

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>Ah, that's 18 spindles not 18 beds. The bed is something I have been wanting to make for nearly 20 years and finally have time, and half the skills to do it (will learn the other half along the way, with a little help from Woodcentral!) It is a magnificant bed, the best spool bed I have ever seen. If it turns out as hoped $18,000 won't buy it! The cherry is from a tree off the family farm in NY and it is the best color I have ever seen.

The beads in question sit on the end of the spindles for the head and foot board. So the profile is: 1/2 dowel that goes into head or foot board, then two 1" dia by 1/2 wide beads and then a 1" dia straight section, then another bead followed by a bunch of deep coves which are fun to cut, but they make the spindle limber. I like coves.

It may be my gouges are not pointy enough. I have been bravely using the skew today and other than the stress, it is working for the task. Maybe if I use it enough I will relax and all will be well, at least that is the route my gouging took.

How deep should the vee be for a 1/2 wide by 1" dia. bead? I'm about 3/16" deep which makes a plump bead which looks ok.

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Sounds like the bed is going to be a beauty. Couple of suggestions....To get a well rounded bead, cut the V a little deeper than you think you should. To make an even, well rounded bead it helps to lightly make a pencil mark in the center of the bead as you start to form it, then cut on either side of the mark.

Wally

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Peter Teubel

>Mitchell abrasive cord is available at Woodcraft also.

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Keith Tompkins

>HI Bill . You can use a gouge or skew. the gouge should be presented on its SIDE. contacting the wood right at the centerline of the turning. With a flatter style gouge, you can easily cut the turning in half if you wanted to.

You CAN use the skew anywhere along the bevel if you take care not to let the leading tip come into contact with the wood. That is how I use the tool. I lower the rest just as I would with the gouge above. ride the bevel, cut from one side, then the other. With a little practice, you can do it with your eyes closed. (not kidding) ps practice using the tools left-handed also.

hope this helps.Keith

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Don Evans

>Your dimensions sound ok for starting them. I would have to see the whole design to make good judgements. Take note of Wally's message, marking is the beginning to uniformity on doing multiple work and helps more than you may realize at first.

One thing I do different than what Wally said is I mark all three points if making simese beads (the center isn't cut as deep and they join). Because I have one, I would start out with the spear point right on the center line to start that cut, then switch to the 3/8" spindle gouge and continue as I described above. If you don't have a spear point, you can do the same thing with skew, long tip down and slightly under spindle center, and make two cuts on each side of center line to start the cutting.

There are many other ways to do. Learning good rolling technique with a spindle gouge and you can make just about anything on a spindle. Sometimes I end up almost completely upside down, uh, make that the gouge does, not me.

Don

Re: adjacent bead technique query

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>have been making starting vees with skew. Tried deepening and widening them some and that helped. I still don't get quite as good a finish with skew point as I do with gouge or skew middle.

I made a"story stick" with hook on end to mark cuts including middle of these and other beads. Turn lathe on very slow speed, hook on the stick and mark away. Kinda neat.

I got some advice on spheres and have been using that advise for beads. I mow off a 45 degree edge, then the two remaining edges and then "one" clean up to make it all round. When it is indeed one clean up cut all is well. Problems occur when I need to go back and fix something. Nothing a few years of practice won't cure.

Just started using Oneway particle M4 gouge. It is a bit deep and gets in way for close cuts, but it takes and holds a superior edge to the M2 gouges I have been using. It has inspried me to make some(after the bed or in 2006, which ever ome sooner)

Thanks all for the help and advise. I thought there wre just bowl folk over here, but obviously some good spindle lurkers as well.