Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

George Troy

>Short and to the point. Cabinet scrapers are for cabinets. GT

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Stuart Johnson

>I will use a cabinet scraper when there is a bit of end grain that I can't bring in line. I don't have a curved one but I think it would work well on the inside. When it is time to put on a new edge I first file it flat and then use a Veritas variable burnisher set at about 7 degrees.

I only use a cabinet scraper with the lathe turned off and the spindle locked. Once in a while you hear someone say they will use a very slow speed. I think that is just a major accident waiting to happen.

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>I disagree, George.

I find a cabinet scraper to be very useful sometimes. Held at a 45 degree angle to the vertical axis of the lathe, it will produce some absolutely feathery wisps of wood off of the outside surface of a bowl. There are times, with some woods, the the best shear scraping (I know you hate the term, TD) technique will still produce tear out, and the cabinet scraper can help.

I have also use one to occasionally refine a long curve on the outside of a bowl, that just seemed to elude me with a gouge or a handled scraper.

When I use one, I use a relatively low speed, I hold the scraper in both hands, locking my forearms against my lower ribcage, and apply the scraper to bowl below center - between the center axis of the bowl, and the ways of the lathe. My movement is controlled just like with a gouge - moving from the ankles and hips, and not the arms.

I have noticed one problem with using a cabinet scraper in this manner with segmented bowls. Because the surface of the bowl is your reference surface (you are riding on the surface of the bowl, rather than on the tool rest), with some wood, you will create a washboard surface - the wood between the glue joints will be removed to a greater degree than the glue joint and the wood immediately on either side. In effect, the glue joint becomes a speed bump. The result is slight, but noticeable, and not easily removed by sanding. When this happens, I use a conventional gouge or scraper very lightly to take the speed bumps out, and then sand.

I have used a curved scraper at very low speed, and while wearing a glove to the inside of a bowl, but this is a much rarer occurance for me, and I am aware that it is an inherently more dangerous operation.

Just my .02 worth.

Mark

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Stuart,

I am not sure how using a cabinet scraper on the outside of a bowl can be any more dangerous than holding a piece of sand paper in the same position on a bowl? The pressure is light on the bowl, and if there were ever a catch (unlikely), the scraper is pushed away from the bowl, out into thin air - or at worse out of your hands (never felt close to either). I am now sure that I could make it happen on purpose. The scraper is held so that it is almost flat on the bowl, maybe at a 10-20 degree angle.

Inside, I will admit is more dangerous, but there are those that will tell you the sanding (power sanding, passive tool, or by hand)inside the bowl with the power on is dangerous, too. The only accident I have had sanding was power sanding with a 12" extension, something caught - the disk started banging back and forth inside the semi-enclosed segmented form, and actually punched itself through the side of the piece. I was not hurt, but the piece required a couple of days to repair.

I am not trying to be confrontational, just giving my opinion.

Mark

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Stuart Johnson

>Mark,

I think it is a matter of being comfortable with the process. The scraper I use has burrs on all eight edges this along with four very sharp corners makes me a little cautious but then I also wear both a belt and suspenders. To be honest I have never heard anyone say they had been hurt when using one with the lathe running. However, I did slice my hand open once when scaping a dresser top and it wasn't spinning.

Slight change but has anyone used a block plane with the lathe running?

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

TDaniel

>I would be lost without my cabinet scrapers and my handplane. I am in the latter stages now of turning another big bowl from rotten poplar. I do not give in easily to leaving tool marks but this wood is too soft in spots to sand as sanding leaves high and low spots. Solution? After putting several coats of oil on I am now using the cabinet scrapers to even out the spots created by sanding. Since I have no steady to fit my VB and the bowl is 34" diameter x 5/16" thick I got a lot of chatter marks near the rim; these too were removed with the scrapers. Punky wood will cause you to try anything; rotten wood will drive you nuts (but ain't it purty?).

Burnishing is still hit and miss for me; one time I get a good burr and the next time the edge just will not roll. Any proven ways to burnish the edge?

TD

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Chris Wright

>Mark,

I have used a cabinet scraper on all sorts of forms to great success. I started after talking to Mark Hancock (UK) about his process. I also watched him demo this technique in Pasadena. One thing I found in talking to Mark H. is to grind a round profile with long sides so that less of the tool contacts and a nice burr. To create his burr, his uses a bench grinder at 90 degrees to the scraper and very lightly & quickly puts the burr on. It is used like you said, at a very acute angle to the wood with the burr at or just below center line. In response to Stuart's concern of cutting one's self, I also took the corners of the "handle side" and removed the burr there also to reduce the chance of this.

Chris

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Scott Thorburn

>Stuart, I to like scrapers to work on the outside and sometimes the inside of bowls. I also use a block plane on the lathe when I am making a long thin straight spindle ( ie walking stick ) I find it an easy way to make a long slight taper. I hold the plane at about a 30 degree angle to the lenght. I plane down hill to the grain with the lathe at slow speed.

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Ron Sardo in PA

>I never thought about using a cabinet scraper on a lathe. I'll have to give it a try.

When it comes to a new edge I start with bastard file to remove the old burr, making sure every edge is square. Then I use a stone to remove the burr the file left. Now I use a Veritas oval burnisher to set a new burr. This take less time than it takes me to sharpen a bowl gouge. I can raise a new burr a couple of times before I need to use a file again.

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Glenn Hodges

>I don't use cabinet scrapers, but I know one thing, Mark makes some pretty stuff.

Nashville, Georgia

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Stuart Johnson

>Are we all talking about the same thing? I use a flat piece of metal about 2 1/4" x 6" as opposed to say a Stanly #80 or some other type of blade holder.

TD, Veritas variable Burnisher gives a very repeatable burr.

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Yup, Stuart, that is what I am talking about. Ron was describing the classic method of raising a burr on a cabinet scraper.

Mark

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Stuart,

I used to really be into the flatwood handtool world, and I got really interested in Handplanes and scrapers at one point, do I still have a bunch of the "Card" scrapers around. I admit that the one that I use on the lathe is only sharpened on both edges of one side - basically for the safety reason that you raise.

If I were to use one with all eight edges sharpened, I think I might use my Varitas Scraper Holder.

This is a good discussion.

TD, I am not sure that it would hold more than about 30 minutes in the chatroom though.

Mark

More Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

George Troy

>As an instructor of turning. I encourge my students to stick with those tools made for woodturning. I have used and know how to use cabinets scrapers, for flat & round wood. I also can use wood planes flat or round. I also can use roughing out gouges for turning bowls,but don't. You name the edge I have used it. We all have different turning techniques. I use skews to shear scrape like Del Stubbs. I wonder how many do that. I also use the Glaser bowl skew, which I wrote an article on. Sometimes it is not unusual to resort to methods that you don't normally do. There is nothing wrong or right about using cabinets scrapers. I have also seen cabinet scrapers used in demos. There is many home made tools out there. An edge is an edge. But I would not advise beginners to use different unique tools until they understand how to make the bevel rub and practice safe turning techniques. I have hook tools, scrapers, ring tools, side grinds, upside down. I don't think there isn't anything I haven't tried in over 23 years of turning. I'm still learning everyday. Anytime I see another technique or turning it's another beginning. It's the old same story, if it works for you;far be it for me to discourage you.

Re: Tool of the Week, CAbinet scrapers

Ron Sardo in PA

>Stu I don't know what Veritas variable burnisher is. I'm guessing it's a jig of some sort to curl a burr. The tool I have is from Veritas, it looks like a screwdriver, but has a oval shaped rod. I use it to raise the burr. A screwdriver or even a drill bit would work just as well.

My scrapers are various sizes and shapes of flat thin steel, 2-1/4" x 6" fits the bill nicely.

So we are talking about the same thing.

Re: Tool of the Week, Burnishing

TDaniel

>So how does everyone burnish....with the scraper in a vise and moving the burnishing rod....or with the rod in the vise and moving the card? I am putting a bowl gouge in my vise and dragging my card across it at a slight angle. I have tried dragging the card across at a vertical angle (90) which should give me a burr on both sides and I have tried tilting the card to get a better burr on just one side; still hit and miss. Once I do get a burr though the little metal card becomes a wonder. TD

Re: Tool of the Week, Burnishing

Ron Sardo in PA

>The scraper is held flat on the top of my workbench and it protrudes out a tiny bit. The file is held flat on the side of my bench and rides over the scraper. I take a few swipes with the file on each edge. I hold everything square by hand.

My stone is an antique from my grandfather who was a barber and used it to sharpen his razors before using a leather belt (I know it's called something else I just can't figure how to spell it). This stone in about 3"x 8". I have no idea what type of stone this is, all I can say that it is reddish brown. I hold the scraper straight up and down by hand and at an angle (front to back) so as I don't cut a groove in the stone. I take a few swipes on the edge then lay the scraper flat and take a few more swipes.

I hold the scraper in one hand and the burnisher in the other. The burnisher is held slightly off square to the scraper, a few swipes and I'm done.

Re: Tool of the Week, Burnishing

Chris Wright

>I got the Veritas scraper burnisher for Christmas and have started using it. It is a plate that mounts to the work bench and has 2 posts that stand vertically, one straight and one is slightly conical. Place the scraper on the plate and run it against the post. More pressure, more burr. Craft Supplies carries it for $35 or so I think...one could probably make one for $2.

Re: Tool of the Week, Burnishing

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Ron,

The leather belt used to hone a razor is a Strop.

Mark

Re: Tool of the Week, Burnishing

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>There are a couple of articles in the WC Articles and Reviews, in the Hand Tools and Techniques section on burnishing a scraper. Check them out.

Get jiggy wid` it!

Bob Hackett

>I use the Veritas adjustable scraper burnisher.It uses a carbide rod that can be dialed in to the angle you want for the burr.As with all jigs,it makes this easy and consistant.(Sorry TD,I just couldn`t resist the elbow in the ribs there).

Mainely,Bob