restoring and using hand planes

Re: restoring and using hand planes

Another issue: I do get full with shaving that are very thin. So I'm happy about that. But I find that they tend to curl up into a long scroll instead of coming off in a long ribbon. The wood doesn't seem to care, but I wonder why I can't get those long ribbon -like shavings that I see on the videos.

Re: restoring and using hand planes

If you are referring to getting a gapless match between the face of the iron and cap iron, I've had good results getting a stright grind using a diamond stone. In the picture I grind left to right. The range of motion is not much, but it doesn't take long to get the desired bevel and the edge is straight.

Grinding up and down tends to grind the corners a bit more than the center.

This is a good video for reference as well, https://youtu.be/65sVCcvewB0.

Rafael

Re: restoring and using hand planes

they tend to curl up into a long scroll instead of coming off in a long ribbon

Take thicker shavings, if they're too thin they won't be rigid enough shoot out straight from the plane.

Try moving the cap iron closer to the edge and see what shavings you get. There's a point where the cap iron is so close that the shavings will bunch up as an acordeon at the edge. Back up the cap a bit and try again.

In your tests, plane the edge of a board. It is easier to get shavings that way.

Re: restoring and using hand planes

Hi Eliot

Preparing the chipbreaker should not take long, and only needs to be done once (although it does need to be maintained).

A good video is this one by David Charlesworth. I may disagree on a technique or two, but he covers all the important bits.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=26MIz2ywD04

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: restoring and using hand planes

This is perfect! I was doing something like this anyway; but on older, beat up cap irons ( ot like his  new one) I can say that the job is much more difficult. I mean they are sometimes bent and twisted. That's why I was looking for some kind of wonder "cure". I should really break down and purchase some new hock stuff. And by the way, just curious, with which of his methods do you have some disagreement?

Re: restoring and using hand planes

And by the way, just curious, with which of his methods do you have some disagreement?

Eliot, I think the world of David, especially as he was open to reasonable debate about his methods. David was famous especially for his Ruler Trick, which as you know is a 2/3 degree backbevel on the back of a plane blade to ensure that this was flat. This was primarily a sharpening issue (to achieve a clean bevel).

There are two ways to do the RT: David's way, which is moving the blade forward-and-back across the stone or, as I (and Rob Cosman) prefer, going side-to-side. With the RT is is really just a preference, and I would not make issue here.

However, when this same technique is transferred to lapping the leading edge of the lip under a chipbreaker, then I see a potential issue. 

Moving a blade forward-and-back, as David does, will create a fine camber (which may be very fine, but still ...). Moving side-to-side, as I do, keeps the metal flat. If the need is to mate two metal faces, I would rather do so with the assurance that both faces are flat. 

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: restoring and using hand planes

Derek, I am no one to disagree with him, but it also seems to me better to go side to side on a chip breaker edge. Believe it or not, though, my problem with the RT is keeping the ruler in place! The thing keeps sipping around, and I don't like holding it in place with one hand because I want two hands controlling the breaker itself. How do you deal with the slipping ruler?

Re: restoring and using hand planes

Hi Eliot

I don’t have a problem with the ruler moving with the RT .. as I do not use it with plane blades. . However, were I to do so  - and I did try it many years back - assuming that you are using waterstones, rub the ruler back-and-forth until the stone dries and is flat. Stiction will hold it firmly.

With the chipbreaker, I have a nominated 600 grit diamond stone (9mm high) and a small strip of UHMW (6mm high). This strip is placed under and across the rear of the chipbreaker, and then screwed together. The UHMW strip slides easily, and side-to-side movements are easy with one hand on the chipbreaker and one hand on the stone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: restoring and using hand planes

I'll try it exactly as you describe for the chip breaker.

So, you don't use the RT? Do you flatten a good portion of the back of the plane blade, then? It sounded as though you admired David because of his ruler trick. Of course, logic would tell us that you can still admire him and not use it. (When I once passed the salt seller to my mother-in-law at dinner and said, "Mom, don't say I never gave you anything", she said -- and mind you she was have some serious memory problems by this time -- " Well, I could say it". Sadly, she is no longer with us.

Re: restoring and using hand planes

Eliot, I don’t use the Ruler Trick and I admire David Charlesworth. The two are not incompatible!

David was a very patient in his teaching, considered in his gentle approach, and not above admitting when he needed to learn something new. He did not get everything right - who does? - but he recognised what was needed to get those in the early stages of woodworking on a path which increased their interest, success, and pleasure. Even later critics, such as David W, acknowledge their debt to his teachings at an early stage.

I tried the Ruler Trick - which works - but found that it was limiting the re-sharpening process. At the time I was using BU planes, which required a high micro secondary bevel, and stropped the back of the blade when the edge dulled. The RT made this difficult. The RT is better used on BD plane blades. Todays premium blades are flat and do not need a RT, which was developed by David to aid in sharpening at a time when Stanley planes and blades dominated.

David was far more than the RT. He developed or demonstrated many techniques which because foundational skills for myself. I wrote about a few of them in two recent-ish Quercus magazine artlcles (UK hand tools-orientated magazine, available for download).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: restoring and using hand planes

I suppose I am for the most part still at the bevel down Stanley phase; so I will keep using his RT. There is one exception: I have that fabulous DS60 Veritas block plane ( that you encouraged me to get) with a BU configuration, and I don't contemplate touching the back.