Combining planed and sanded surfaces

Test the folklore

It will be a simple matter to test whether the prepared surfaces finish the same.  I would not trust anyone else's opinion in this matter.  Report your results here. 

Re: Combining planed and sanded surfaces

I agree as everyone has different work habits.  Make a test.

About 10 years ago I was experimenting with shellac, and couldn't believe my professional finisher friend, who said can't make a surface look better than good sanding with 220.

I knew better, so on a piece of figured cherry I carefully planed both sides with a LN smoother after sharpening the blade, then hand sanded one end of one side with 220 and hand sanded one end of the other side with 400.  mixed some fresh blond shellac and carefully padded on several coats on both sides.  

Couldn't distinguish the hand planed from hand sanded surface on either side.

Re: Combining planed and sanded surfaces

Thanks Don! I think you are right about different methods of work.  I did a similar test to what you did quite a few years ago, also on cherry, using shellac. I compared sanding to 220 to a planed surface using an A2 blade honed to 8000 K on a Shapton and then stropped.  Two coats of amber shellac and can't recall if I brushed it on or padded it on.  I did see a moderate difference in the chatoyance, with the planed surface looking better.  

Re: Test the folklore

Hey Bill,

Hmmm? If you wouldn't trust anyone else's results, why do you want me to post mine?

Should I be flattered?

Re: Test the folklore

You won't have an agenda biasing the results.

Prelim results- thoughts anyone?

So, I sanded the transition zone that was a problem with getting a clean surface with spokeshaves.  I started at 220 through 400 and 600.  I put on my optivisor to check that all marks from the previous grit were gone before moving up. The sanded surface felt smoother than the planed surface.  I burnished the sanded surface with very fine plane shavings.  I then applied a wipe of naphtha.  The sanded surface definitely looked duller, but really only apparent looking at an acute angle.  When I looked at 90 degrees, the surfaces were almost identical. I repeated another side the same way, but burnishing with shavings and then denim after sanding.  No change.

Question before I go buy some 800 or 1000 grit.  Is the naphtha a realistic enough  simulation of a not particularly thick top coat, like a few coats of shellac? 

I would love to hear from anyone that routinely combines sanded and planed surfaces. This forum seems to have (hopefully not had) some of the most experienced people around.

some thoughts

As I understand the situation the orientation of the grain in the transition will be different from the adjacent areas.  If this is the case this area will look different under scrutinizing lighting no matter what you do.

Applying a solvent to wood will not be equivalent to adding a layer of finish on the wood. The solvent will not create a layer of solvent on the wood to observe the wood through (unless you puddled it on the surface). 

Planing will leave a surface with open wood pores.  Burnishing will crush the wood surface and blind over the pores.  I could be proven wrong as I have no experience in this matter, but I would speculate that burnishing is not the route to equivalence. 

Northern cherry typically has lots of grain changes along the length of a piece of wood, resulting in highlights.  I doubt anyone is going to notice what you are fretting about among all the other expected changes in reflectance a piece of cherry normally has.  But, you pose an interesting academic question worthy of investigation. 

I sand everything,  So does every woodworker I know of that puts product out the shop for family or customers.  I can't build a piece of furniture with out it getting scuffs from handling during construction.  I have often wondered how people that claim to build stuff only with hand planed surfaces deal with scuffs. I predict you will accept sanding as a normal part of making stuff or you will not be making stuff two years hence.  Report back in 2 years as I like to have my predictions proven wrong. 

Post a picture of your work.  This Forum rarely sees the result of someone actually making stuff. 

Re: Combining planed and sanded surfaces

Sandpaper is not the enemy, but a magnifying glass surely is.  Use your eyes and your fingertips as final judge.  A supermodel's skin probably wouldn't look that great under magnification.  It'd be a shame if you found her unfit for purpose because of it.

Re: some thoughts

"I have often wondered how people that claim to build stuff only with hand planed surfaces deal with scuffs. I predict you will accept sanding as a normal part of making stuff or you will not be making stuff two years hence.  Report back in 2 years as I like to have my predictions proven wrong. "

In 2005 you stated on this forum that you had learned that some people work without sandpaper. You asked what such people do about scuffs and I gave a detailed description of how to handle these situations. Apparently it was wasted effort as you have forgotten. 

You like to have your predictions proven wrong? I am reporting back after 45 years.

Delighted you have come out of retirement

While you lecture was indeed wasted on me I'll bet David G. would benefit from having you repeat the lesson. 

Re: Combining planed and sanded surfaces

The instructions on many finishes call for sanding to 220 and not beyond.  Jut FYI.

Certainly if you prefer sanding to 600 or beyond, dpon't mind the additional hours and materials onsts, and finishes adhere, do what makes you happy.  Viewed from even just 3 feet away, appearance differences may be indistinguishable.

Re: Combining planed and sanded surfaces

Charlie,  I'm pretty sure my wife won't like it if I use the eyes and fingers test on a super model.