***Fred West's Tools -- Up For Auction!***

the collection was interesting to study

I looked and was reminded of a comment by the person that runs the large tool auctions made as he was unpacking an estate's assets........"I deconstruct the compulsive possessive".  I can't wrap my head around what would lead someone to accumulate such a collection.  It would seem that some tools are simply made to be possessed.  What of those tools would be of use to a young furniture maker?  They mostly seem to be tools one would not find in a professional shop.  

Re: the collection was interesting to study

Fred was not just a collector of the finest tools, he was also a patron of  many custom toolmakers. For many, he kept their businesses afloat, buying their costly wares, and then giving them away to friends. He had something of everyone, and often multiple sets, always first in line , patiently waiting for a few years, and then made them into a gift.

To say that Fred was as enthusiast was an understatement. His love and passion for woodworking knew no boundaries. He always saw the positive side of everyone and would talk them up. 

Fred started the TalkFestool forum, and was as larger-than-life there as I gather he was at woodshows. That is where I met him. His interest in everything was infectious. He was always the first with a new tool. Bloody terrible woodworker - I think his crowning occasion was a TV stand or wall covering that gently swayed … By trade, I gather Fred had done quite well with furniture stores. He could afford the tools, and I think he he obtained a vicarious pleasure in seeing them used properly.

To answer one question, why did he have so many tools, because he could and because he enjoyed the heck out of each and every one. They were his connection to craftsmen, with who he took under his wing. And then Fred reached out with these tools to educate and delight as many woodworkers as he could. For some, collections are selfish; for Fred they were for sharing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: the collection was interesting to study

Sounds like Fred was even more interesting than his tools.  

His wish vs the auction

" It will not surprise you that Fred’s wish was that his hand tools be used daily by a wide range of people, especially younger, aspiring woodworkers. "   I reviewed the auction lots again with this wish in mind.  I don't see the auction meeting this goal.  It seemed to me that whoever groped items did so with no clue how to achieve the goal.  What young aspiring woodworker is going to bid on 6 Blue Spruce marking knives?  Look for them to show up on Ebay soon by a tool reseller, and much else destined to the shelves of other tool collectors to be admired, not used. 

I have seen the woodworking tool auction professionals operate at Midwest Woodworking Tool meets.  If they get word of this auction they will place a wholesale bid on every item establishing a minimum bid at what they can resell at their expected profit.  

Re: His wish vs the auction

The cynic in me agrees. If any of these tools end up in the hands of craftsmen who really need them, it'll be because they bought them from tool dealers who are likely to end up with the bulk of the collection. Take this for what it's worth, and the source, as I have a Pfeil marking knife and I thought it was an absurd splurge on myself and still do. I use a Stanley knife the vast majority of the time. I'm guessing a Blue Spruce knife costs three or four times what the Pfeil cost.

Re: ***Fred West's Tools -- Up For Auction!***

Who is Taylor Swift ??

Blue Spruce marking knives

The BS maker gave me one in appreciation for some help rendered years ago.  There is something about it that is just right for me.  It is  the right size, the right flexibility, the right handle.  It stays on the bench on the side of my chisel holding rack.  If it disappeared I would try to make another, and if that failed buy a replacement.  But yikes the price.  Not something the target destination for these tools will buy with profits from making furniture.  

Re: ***Fred West's Tools -- Up For Auction!***

She's not big into woodworking, Roger

Fred West sounds like a great character. I think it would need someone like him to be giving the stuff away to people making things. His family are doing the best they can to move them on.

They are such unique and expensive items that most people couldn't afford or justify them unless donated to them.

Re: His wish vs the auction

I don't post here much, but went to this link of auction items - the group is astounding. I don't know who Fred was, but he obviously enjoyed the relationship side of buying and having these things, like most collectors do (the buzz is in having and showing, using is a threat sometimes to that buzz because it's harder to differentiate yourself). 

Some of the items in the auction are poorly defined, and I suspect the outcome won't be great - I've seen time and again what bill describes - when a listing is up whether it's tommy tedesco's guitars or some guy's expensive tools, anything that's not 2/3rds or 3/4ths of ebay sale price will be bought by dealers and listed above ebay sale price. 

Eons ago, some noted infill collector in England died leaving behind some enormous number of infill planes - which were inflated in price in the US at the time (but not in England). I can remember the forums being giddy about the number of planes being too much and I think the listing was public online. I recall, but obviously never audited this statement - that the sale went by and there was no buzz about the typical dealers (the walt Qs and others) getting things cheap and passing along some portion of that savings because Jim Bode (who was new at that time and a little less tolerable business wise than he is now) sort of bucked convention and took everything. I'd love to hear that for certain - but the result was as described here. I never saw a single affordable plane come out of that debacle. 

Jim operates differently now - he pays fairly, marks up some, and relies on his status as a dealer (well known) to add value to the sales.

I've learned something from watching all of these things to the point that I don't really waste my time with them - if you don't need it at full price, you probably don't need it at 2/3rds price and it will become a burden. And nobody in the lineage will ever sell anything for 2/3rds price, and nothing will go for 10% of market value or any such things because the dealers make ends meet with volume buys like this. 

I didn't manage to get anything of tommy tedescos. In the end, a lot of the average stuff he had went for....average market value, and the thrill kind of wore off when I realized that I like to make guitars and my problem is fast becoming having the guitars i've made.

I hope to have nothing that my kids and wife can't just throw away when I die, except for a very few things that people have given me in trade for tools that I put a much higher value on - because of the relationships, which seems to make the tools more significant. 

I see a bunch of tsunesaburo planes in that auction, which were foisted on us in the states at double or more what they actually sell for in japan. But that's the way it goes. Other planes look familiar enough that I could track down the kanji and match it to recent known makers, but there's a good chance there are a lot of $500-$800 japanese planes in that auction that won't bring much - and not enough information to even know what size they are, but they are not just die stamped logos on the irons like tsunesaburo's planes. 

The other thing that's a real shame is the idea that it's become acceptable for an auction house to take a slice from the deceased relatives and then slap the buyer with a 20% buyer's premium. that kind of little psychological game is abhorrent. I remember first hearing about it when it was 5 or 10% and how underhanded people thought that was. 

lastly - I could be wrong about the auction house - maybe they know how to promote this. I grew up in a rural area where people weren't like fence pickets like they are in the suburbs. There were a lot of wealthy eccentric collectors who had odd or rare things and were just dying to meet people who would like to get a private tour and be told about them - or public. The shut-everyone-else strawman that derek proposed is something I haven't seen. Our local auction house (the kind of place you couldn't see from the rear to the front back then due to cigarette smoke - where wednesday night could include worn out shotguns and pee stained mattresses - took on selling an estate of very rare guns. Like very high grade parker shotguns, and other such things. I thought for sure that the deceased's relatives were nuts.). 

the pee-mattress-auction-house owner was an avid hunter and he knew how to draw buyers for the sort of stuff, with some guns back then going for several multiples of the median house price in the state. that was before widespread internet use - as auction attendees, we only got a flyer with the gun listing on it and estimated prices, which we thought were perhaps a prank. 

Since I didn't know Fred, I looked up his obit. He was only 57. That's a shame. There's a serial killer with the same name, so actually finding it wasn't that easy!

Too...

Some others here may remember about a decade ago that someone in ohio who had a whole house full - like in the tons - of boutique tools, and two of every single thing bridge city ever made on top of it, died and left all of his stash for his wife to deal with. 

She wanted to sell all of it as a lot. I wonder if the person who bought the stuff ever knew that it would sell for a fraction of its worth as a group - a bunch of members on woodnet (that's a long time ago for me) must've contacted the lady but she didn't budget about selling it in one shot. The only person who came forward was a member there who was a tool reseller, which reminds me of what Todd used to say...to paraphrase - if an old lady had boxes of moulding planes worth well into five figures on tool dealer sites, he'd offer $400 (I'll bet warren could find $400 in the archives, I can't remember names but...). There was outcry here when he said that about how terrible that was, and he made the point that it wasn't worth the time to screw around splitting everything up and identifying it unless the acquisition cost was very little. 

And quite often, after a delay and not finding a better option, the same person would come back and agree to the deal. 

lesson from that, I would just suppose that the lady with all of the bridge city tools got a small fraction of their value, and she probably didn't care, because they were a burden to her.  

A local woodworker died and.....

..Club members learned she wanted to liquidate the husbands high end, but user, tools.  Knowledgeable members stepped in and inventoried what she had and found replacement prices. She was advised where to advertise and how to deal with perspective buyers.   People came from 400 miles to purchase large stationary tools.   Within 2 months she had sold everything at half to 3/4 full prices. 

Widows should have the help of the woodworking community when faced with selling a husband's shop.  

In the current situation I might have advised making a charitable donation to North Bennett School or something similar, claim a tax credit, feel good about the solution,  and let them deal with liquidation.  

Re: the collection was interesting to study

Maybe this has been posted here already. Sometimes people ask questions for which answers are easily found. Sounds like a great guy. I was unaware of him and his influence. 

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/12/14/a-tribute-to-the-patron-of-the-hand-tool-world/

Re: the collection was interesting to study

Thanks for posting that, John.....it really helps to read this to get a clearer appreciation of the man......

Re: Too...

There was a similar story in the "Mechanic's bedside reader" I think. The author helped to liquidate an estate of somebody enjoying possession of metalworking machines: lathes, mills, etc. He used to buy the most exquisite and rare machines, like NOS early Myford lathe with a complete set of accessories, several of them actually, pattern-making mills, sets and sets gauges, quite exotic dies and taps and so on. He had never used one, most of them were still packaged or in a shipping crate. He would occasionally disassemble one and arrange it on a table kinda like anatomy demo stand (or whatever they're called). This got to the point where that person had to build a warehouse connected with a gallery to the back of his house, so he could go there whenever he wanted. The way that story was written gave me about the same weird feeling as going through this collection. Most tools are unused, just a few of them have marks of use (probably purchased second-hand?), only a few basic tools are quite well used actually. A few Japanese planes seems to be botched in an attempt at fettling. Most of them are mid-range tools, kind of what a good tools store would sell, but they miss a cap iron or sometimes all the iron parts. Many of the tools made it into collection absolutely not because of "fine arts patronage", like, who would buy two sets of mass made paring chisels? One set is too much for an average woodworker. So I guess Bill is right. Grouping is also weird, one could imagine that a patron of toolmakers would have one or two friends willing to at least put things together correctly? Or the auction house could have hired someone, I mean, my wife would do a better job and she haven't set foot in my garage for like a year. Putting a ruler to a thing to get some basic sizes is also not too much of a job, isn't it? Or what is that buyer's premium for if they haven't even bother to get even general dimensions? All in all, the collection is interesting indeed, but perhaps not for the reasons one might have hoped for.

Re: His wish vs the auction

...aaaand within a day of Alderfield auctions closing about half of the lots are on eBay, bidding starts at about 130-150% of a winning bet. 

Re: His wish vs the auction

I almost forgot about the auction, but wasn't a threat to bid on anything. 

there were some shocking prices paid. A set of chinese firmer gouges that would be $150 with buyers premium. One of the few sets of that type (euro copies, but made in the east) that I've seen with a high polish, but still. 

And a 7 1/2 low angle jointer that would be at least $960. Almost like going to a farm auction and bidding high on the prettiest neutered bull. 

The family did well. Upon reading your post, I tried to find a few things quickly eating a late lunch here, but couldn't find much other than a LN #2 that closed at $600 listed for $1199 on ebay. 

...........

it'll be of little interest to most on here, but two very wide japanese planes, the kind that are used at shows, sold very low given they cost a mint to commission. 

Overall, not that Lie Nielsen tools really had a high footage-planed-per-plane rate in the past, but to see things like a rusty large scraper plane sell for $350 plus buyers premium (presumably plus tax if a dealer didn't buy it), they're making the quick transition into shelf holder downers. 

I can't for the life of me figure out why a whole bunch of inlay cutters went with the 7 1/2 plane, or the brese smoothing plane included a bunch of holtey double iron stuff (might work well!!). 

Sort of an interesting end to a unique story. I'm glad for the family that there were loads of things closing at $100. 

Re: His wish vs the auction

Yeah, that LN plane, also Iwasaki carving files, some mid-range Japanese planes — also closed not too high, but with 20% premium they probably were at a regular price. Didn't bid on them because wasn't sure of their condition, sometimes previous attempts at fettling are hard to undo. Also two or three sets of oire nomi's - that's just what eBay has suggested. A few lots were from the same vendor, so I assume many other will pop up there too. Noticed those two wide planes as well, they were sold cheap indeed. Wondering who has bought them - it's unlikely someone who does use them in actual work or completes really shops around at auctions. So you're probably right, they will never see light of a day, they can't even be sharpened on regular stones. The Chinese firmer gouges -  these were from Lee Valley I think, not in stock anymore, but when they were it was around 70$ for a set. I've snagged two on eBay a long time ago for 25$ delivered, they look like better quality Chinese made tool - polished, good handles, but not much more than that. 

The lots were the biggest puzzle to me. There were at least three dais listed separately from irons and chipbreakers, didn't make any sense. Or maybe irons were pulled out and stored separately so that a dai won't crack? And whoever was preparing the lots just bundled irons with some other spare irons?