delay times for buying chisels

Re: ... when it brings a smile to your face ...

I do believe that I understand the process. But as I don't have to tell you or anyone else, such understanding, by itself, is not sufficient. Necessary, yes, but not enough. Thanks for the input.

Re: delay times for buying chisels

Eliot hope you enjoy the BS.

Lie-Nielsen sell Lie-Nielsen

Lee Valley sell Veritas.

It's impossible (I think) to buy Veritas from Lie-Nielsen.

Re: BS and KM

In KM's YouTube video, he states that he worked with HongDui to develop the router. Reading between the lines, one could surmise that KM bought a Veritas router and sent it to China to be copied. If it violates LV's patents or trade dress copyrights, they could decide to sue HD to stop export to countries that follow international rules. Whether or not they would do that is an economic decision. They also rely on gentlemen's agreements with their customers, both retail and wholesale, to not buy knock-off products from China. All too often, though, potential customers make their buying decisions solely on price, but not on the long term viability of innovative companies, who just happen to speak the same language and have many of the same values.

Re: Patience, a good eye, and practice, practice, practice

The "super-fine," "no backlash," isn't really necessary.  The basic tool was made for use after you'd gotten really close with a chisel.  You might need to adjust depth deeper a time or two, not a half dozen times or more.  If you need that sort of capability, just use an electric router, set it, plow it, and be done with it.

You should always chisel to 'show depth' on the show side of a through dado anyway.  The router just levels down to your own exquisite chisel work.  The work of the router doesn't show.  If you're making exit cuts (or entry cuts for that matter) that will show, with a hand router, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the tool and the process itself.

For better or worse, the work that shows is what you're able to pull off with your chisel.  Otherwise, you're just using an overpriced proxy for a power tool and should drop all pretense and just use ... a power tool.

Re: Patience, a good eye, and practice, practice, practice

Charlie I agree with this for the most part.

Re: Patience, a good eye, and practice, practice, practice

For most housings, the goal would be one setting on the router and that's it.  No more than two.  Somebody using a router a quarter turn at a time, for several passes, is likely completely missing the boat, or has woodworked themselves into a needless corner and has given himself or herself no choice.  It's quite possible that one's chisel work in between entry and exit will have gone slight too deep and will leave a mark when the housing is leveled out and completed.  Those who would be driven nuts by this, should just use an electric router.  Producing a glass-slick perfect bottom is not what a router plane was necessarily designed to do.  It will, but it's too slow.  It requires too many passes, or too reticent a use of chisels.  You just need a basically level housing -- no bumps, a swale or two or a little tearout below depth doesn't affect matters one bit as long as it's not on the end that shows -- the part you should carefully do by chisel in the first place.

Most people are still porting a power tool mentality to hand tool woodworking which boutique toolmakers are happy to indulge.  

Re: Patience, a good eye, and practice, practice, practice

Most people are still porting a power tool mentality to hand tool woodworking which boutique toolmakers are happy to indulge

Well said Charlie!

The router plane.

A router plane is not necessary for making dados, or housings,or tenons,or mortises, or rabbets, or for plowing grooves. What a router plane is good at is routing, believe it or not. Routing is lowering a ground in a flat surface as for inlay or a background for carving.

Chris Schwarz claimed that the Stanley 71 depth stop does not work very well. Rather peculiar considering this tool does not have a depth stop at all. What it has is a "depth gauge" which limits the thickness of shaving which comes with a given stroke. You can set the cutter to a depth of 3/16, say, and then set the depth gauge to take shavings of 1/64 or whatever. So you can take repeated cuts without having to fiddle with the settings.

Re: delay times for buying chisels

I did demos for LV cutting dovetails, back around 2K, and I used their file sharpenable chisels.  The Butt chisels I carry in my framing belt.  Chisels make no difference at all, except in very hard or abrasive woods.  I know, I own chisels that cost 350 each.  They are nice, but not necessary.

Grizzly/amazon, has Japanese chisels for what the Butt chisels cost.  I got standard Grizzly Japanese gouges for about 30US each off Amazon.ca, and there are deals for them as low as 15 bucks each on .com.  Most of what we see over here are the art tools, but they make rocking good tools for every day use that are awesome.  My favourite plane has a blade in it that cost me 13.50. Admitedly back in the 80s.  But there are catalogs full of user quality tools, lots of which are made by machine, and that are superb users.  The HSS ones can be better than some of the art tools.

Re: The router plane.

I find it useful for hinge mortises.  While these can be done entirely with a chisel I find it most convenient to rough out with a chisel and finish up with the router plane.  I especially like to use it to get in all the corners with the result they don't have any surprises from some crumb I failed to find with the chisel.  

I find the LV version easier to accurately adjust.  

Agree.

Hinge mortices, leveling floors, grooves, making tenon cheeks parallel … some of the many uses a router plane has. Not necessary for all, but very helpful when the need arises.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Agree.

One rarely installs just one hinge.  Adjust the router plane to final depth (against the marking gauge mark), tighten down, and go to town.  Chisel gets you oh-so-close. Router plane is for just removing tissue and the inadvertent very slight bump.  The cutter could go two or three projects before ever needing a touch-up.  The makers weren't worried too much about how you sharpen them, because they shouldn't need it that much, and you can do all the honing from flat side and wipe the bevel, rather than the other way around.  People who've invented ways to grind the bevel don't get it.

Re: Agree.

The design of the "modern" 71 and clones really encourages people to use it incorrectly: pass 1, pass 2, pass 3, pass 4, and on and on.

Removing the waste from a hinge mortice …

Just images from my website. Pretty much self- explanatory ..

Use a wide chisel to pare down close to the baseline …

Now finish with the router plane to the baseline …

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Removing the waste from a hinge mortice …

On a good day, you wouldn't even need a router.  The point(s) I was trying to make is that an uber-tuned/over-engineered tool is simply not required. I never doubted that you'd cut a hinge mortise before.  The cutters also work well in bare hands, with thumbs pushing and forefingers supplying downward pressure.