Carborundum combination stone

Re: Carborundum combination stone

eliot feldman

I have more or less the feeling about the backs. And I"m still learning. But I like to watch videos by people like Paul Sellers and Rob Cosman, and they seem to have no trouble at all using a couple of diamond stones. Cosman uses a 300/1000 on the 1000 side at first and then switched over to a 16000 to finish. He SWEARS by the Charlsworth ruller trick for the back, and he shows exactly how to do it --ruler on one edge of stone, sharp edge of plane blade (never a chisel) on the other edge of the stone, and keeps the sharp edge moving along that edge at a constant distance from the ruller so the angle is constant. . Sellers doesn't use the ruler trick, and he seems to get excellent results. Both of these woodworkers then put the blade in a plane an take incredibly beautiful shavings. I don't believe there's any kind of chickanery , I really don't. Sure, Cosman already has the board he planes set up perfectly. But so what? Seeing is still believing.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

eliot feldman

Not sure why my post came up here-- not that it matters much. I was trying to respond to Mike in Los Angeles about his difficulty in getting the backs the way he wants them.

Re: The burr

Steve D, in CT

Last night I took the A2 blade that I have been disappointed with and used a fine diamond to raise a larger than normal (for me) burr. My typical setup on A2 is the Tools From Japan 1000-6000-13000 setup from Sigma Power and the 1000 is not aggressive enough to raise a large burr in a timely fashion.

At the same angle (35+ degrees) I went to the 1000 and the burr shrank quite a bit on its own rather than growing more. I took that as a signal to continue on the progression and do the back on the polishing stone.

Initial results were good but I haven't done much with the plane yet.

I got some oil into my waterstones last week and it wasn't pretty. I'd prefer to keep the 2 systems separate, hence the diamond.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Mike In Los Angeles

Thanks eliot, I promise it’s not for lack of watching YouTube videos that I fight this. I get the ruler trick and the sellers convex and all, but with all those things there’s reasons not to use them.

Even in this thread, which might turn out to be exactly what I’ve been after, the approach generously recommended is in controversy with that advised by others who have said to work the back of an iron on a vigorous stone every time It’s sharpened.

Something that leads to headaches (for me) has been trying to learn from several teachers at once; each with a different method and mindset. You might be doing this to yourself. In appreciation of the generosity of a recently absented but formerly omnipresent forum member here, Ive been working the back with a medium stone each time.

Seeing is believing, sure, but I can’t see how much of a burr Cosman raised and I can’t see how dull his iron was. This thread is pretty specific to stuff you can’t see.

When an issue has been polemic for centuries, it seems likely the disagreement proceeds from each school having its own merits, drawbacks, and tweaks to offset the drawbacks introduced by its upside. Sharpening in the world is complicated, but everyone whos good at it can tell you just how easy it is when you do it his way.

Im grateful to everyone who has contributed.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Mike In Los Angeles

Brian Boggs says to never raise a burr. Cliff stamp said by the time a burr is formed, the edge is already degraded to the point that edge retention is a no go, his platform sharpening makes sense. I believe his video on unicorn sharpening was in 2015. Nicholson didn’t say anything, perhaps his voice is loudest.

None of them learned from youtube, sometimes it’s tricky to get a feel for things I’ve never seen in person.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Mike In Los Angeles

The point wasn’t to debate sharpening theologies, the point was (what was the point?) that it’s a tricky thing to learn anecdotally, as in by description rather than driving to a forum members garage and being shown in person.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

eliot feldman

You seem to really be into it. I suppose my question for you is: How are your planes working after sharpening? Personally, I don't think I would have any interest in microscopic photos,etc., if I could get those superb shavings that I see on the videos. (And I can even get them -- but only sometimes depending on the wood and other variables.) I sometimes watch the guy on the Renaisance (sp?) youtube. He is an extremely competent hand tool woodworker, but I don't see those super thin, wide shavings. Yet he does everything you would want with his planes. I mean he gets his boards flat and smooth every time. I do fairly well, too, even though no one would want to video tape me doing it! I can't help wondering if some of us are over thinking the whole thing.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Bruce McCrory

I think the Youtuber's sexy fluffies are the result of the same length of filming takes as the full length of the video. I'd really not want to build from the board that generated all of the fluff. But, they are good marketing.

Yesterday I tried out a new Mora Sloyd knife I hadn't used. I promptly attempted creating a forked thumb. The bloody wrap gave me time to think. Swedes give you a taste of sharp at the get go. There's your in-person example. Hopefully, I don't need to test sharp in the same fashion again.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Mike In Los Angeles

This whole thread got a little mixed up. I’m not sure what you think my question was. As a guy who knows a lot and doesn’t know a lot, II wish everyone would just assume we all know a lot and don’t know a lot.

When o got on this forum a couple years ago I was very green and very enthusiastic and very full of ideas I wanted to post. Quickly I saw this was a place I could learn a lot, as far as my bright ideas not so much. I’m still green but more into listening and learning.

You might have noticed there’s some extremely heavy hitters on this board, people who know things I haven’t found anywhere else. For them, sharpening threads, restoration threads, shop safety threads, comparisons of contemporary tool makers, must seem pretty tedious.

I thought I’d ask about flattening on a dished stone because it has given me aggravation and because I thought there’s probably people fighting it who don’t feel like speaking up. It seems like there were and are. It was cool to see, though, how a couple people read further into what I was asking than I knew to ask and answered the question more fully than I could have asked it.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

eliot feldman

I re-read the thread from where you got into it. So, from that post, you are concerned about dealing with the back of a blade on a DISHED stone. I must be a bit dense, but why don't you just use a coarse diamond stone and flatten whatever stone you are using? (I apologize in advance for probably missing something.)

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Jack Dover

It's not just about flatness of a stone. I mean, flatness is important, but not the only factor that contributes to a problem. Given all the factors one might conclude that a stone isn't the best abrasive available today to battle the issue of a cutter back going out of flat, a diamond plate or sandpaper produces more predictable and consistent results. But then there's other people that think that it isn't such a huge issue and it's acceptable to have it slightly out of flat or a lesser degree of polish, etc. - because it woks for what they do. And then there's a third group of people that think something else, pretty sure there's a dozen different opinions on the matter.

I think it's important to avoid an internal bias that pushes us picking an arbitrary answer just because it matches our implicit preference. Like, I know a guy who refuses to use sandpaper for lapping because "they didn't have it back then". Another guy absolutely despises water stones because he hates everything Japanese (because of all the hype around their ways of working wood, culture, etc.), another guy that wages a holy war against diamonds, etc. All of them would pick different answers depending on how well it fits their opinions. The blue forum is a prime example, I used to be like this, still am, maybe slightly less. It's a paradox really, since to pick the right answer to your own question is pretty much impossible, you wouldn't have the question in the first place. But this is what it is.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

eliot feldman

You must be a carver. I have this feeling that it's the cavers who know most about sharpening. Sorry you got cut. How did you test the knife?

It's a road to ....

Bruce McCrory

The road to hell is paved in sharpening media. I can weight my bench with stones from every sharpener you can think of; it feels that way.

I think David's Unicorn Method plunks the theories, and gives us the bucks. But even then you don't need to run to the store for a buffer you don't have. co-authors got similar results with leather strops, and electric drills.

The problems I ran into were not understanding the degree of keenness necessary to be really sharp.

After conquering sharp, then attack the durable edge. And, guess what? Unicorn gives your $3 chisel a gold star, too, for edge durability.

Analyze blade edge profile for a solution.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Bruce McCrory

No, I just didn't have time or money to fuss with chisels. A knife was a blade for all things. It's only now when I have time that I can chase more interests. Carving (hacking) being one.

Re: Carborundum combination stone

Bruce McCrory

Accidents are usually the result of foolishness. And, I only stained a new knife handle. I have plenty of elastic bandage wrap to protect fingers from sharp. There's a glove somewhere, too.