Gouge sweep designations

you may be able to compare charts

David Weaver

https://twocherriesusa.com/category/carving/sweep-chart/

pfeil starting page 26 on this page

http://woodcarvingsupplies.usanethosting.com/WCCAT.pdf

woodcraft's link that comes up from google is lacking compared to that PDF catalog.

too bad....

David Weaver

pfeil tools have dedicated distribution in the US with no other way to get them...

....looking up their sweeps and comparing cost in the UK vs. here...

25 tool carving set - UK vendor without vat - $641 (and of course, that would be without sales tax for most).

Woodcraft - $1,053+ tax.

Same set, same roll, same stones/oil mallet. Jeez.

Info from Don McConnell

Wiley Horne

Hi Joe and all,

Don McConnell of Old Street planemakers figured out the gouge sweep math. He used to have a full article published at www.planemaker.com, but I cannot locate it there now.

In brief, there are 2 systems of gouge sweeps, the Sheffield system used in the UK, and the European system of continental Europe. Here is an excerpt of a pist Don made a few years ago on this very subject, where he shows a specific comparison between the Sheffield and European sweeps:

Don McConnell:

“What is true of BOTH the Sheffield and European sweep charts is that the gouges of each sweep have the same proportions. In other words, the width and depth of the arc of each gouge of a sweep have the same ratio to each other (not the same radius). This holds true whether one expresses this in terms of degrees of arc, as Michel Auriou does, or in terms of the radius of each size gouge, based on its width. Some time back, I worked out a method for arriving at the latter for the London Pattern/Sheffield List charts:

http://www.planemaker.com/articles_gouges.html

And, one can arrive at the same values for the European charts using exactly the same approach. (Actually, upon some reflection, it becomes clear that there is no other logical approach to creating a system of sweeps for carving gouges.) For purposes of this discussion, I've compared the two systems (using a chart from Two Cherries), and am attaching a pdf file with the basic results. Hopefully, it will be of some value.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, amongst former manufacturers of carving gouges, I've become pretty fond of the Herring Bros. gouges out of London. And the few D. R. Barton gouges I've encountered have been high quality, as well. Regarding contemporary makers, I've not used enough Pfeil gouges to have anything meaningful to say about their steel, but am frustrated by the fact that most of the other major current makers are producing carving gouges which are so heavy/clunky as to impair their utility.

Don McConnell

Eureka Springs, AR

CHART

______________

Wiley

To directly answer your question..

Wiley Horne

Best guess is that both Pfeil (Swiss) and Hirsch (German) both follow the European system.

Wiley

Re: too bad....

Joe Fleming

I buy most of my Pfeil tools from Chipping Away in Canada. Way better prices than Woodcraft.

Re: too bad....

David Weaver

One of the canadian vendors used to sell the tools on ebay for 15 or 20% less than woodcraft does, and shipped to the US, but that got squashed pretty quickly and not long after, their website said "we do not ship tools to the US".

It looks like Chipping Away is also about that amount (maybe 10%) below woodcraft, but it may not be lower just due them not updating conversion rates.

This isn't the first thing that I've seen from europe that's *monstrously* cheaper in europe, though. Years ago, I wanted to buy a german vacuum. It was $880 here, and $550 with VAT in England, who isn't known for having low cost consumer goods in the first place (which is about $460 after VAT). I found the same vacuum sold to commercial buyers not long after for $400. More than double the price to buy the same thing at retail likely due to a distribution stranglehold (exclusive agreement). Not a fan.

Shapton stones were like that for a long time - pro stones were double the price here that they are at retail in japan almost certainly due to an exclusive distribution agreement. That was generally the case for almost everything made in japan.

Thanks very much

Joe shelton

I'm now going to keep this with my small collection of works on the classical orders.

Re: Info from Don McConnell

Steve Voigt

I made pdfs of those old street articles a while back…if someone needs/wants one, email me via the Voigt planes website and I'll send you a copy.