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Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

Craftsman 12" Bandsaw – Fully Rebuilt + Turning Blanks

Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

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Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#1

Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

Jack Dover

It has arrived a few days ago, got some shop time yesterday to play with it. Please note everything below is quite subjective, because I don't have lots of stones to compare it to.

The stone is thinner that I was expecting and a bit cupped on one side. It looks exactly like it was pictured on the website. Those streaks are actually pinkish in color when wet, I wonder how were they formed, they look quite bizarre.

The stone cuts fast. Initially it left scratches like a coarse crystolon, but quickly smoothed out. It's of medium density (I guess I could calculate exact density) - my other stones of this size is slightly heavier, also it wicks oil unlike my other Arkansas stones, but not as fast as a crystolon stone.

Overall this Norton Washita is quite similar to one unidentified stone I own. That stone has a dirty yellow hue, which I attribute to old oil, and shows dull white spots when refreshed with a diamond plate. I tried washing it and it doesn't seem to affect its color significantly. There are pictures of Washitas on internet that look like my stone (Mechanic Delight for ex), but there's also a bunch of similarly looking soft Arkansas stones. The only difference with the new stone is that it's less aggressive, even when refreshed. Both stones cut faster than a soft Arkansas. This Norton Washita stone seems to be somewhat pressure sensitive in a sense that with a light enough touch it doesn't leave scratches but still removes material, with heavier pressure it seems to remove material quicker. I compare this to my diamond stones where heavier pressure results just in heavier scratches.

I'll be using it more, my primary interest is whether it will cut those few Japanese blades I'm having issues with. It's also about time to figure boxes or holders, there's a number of loose stones already and using them becomes a hassle.


Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#2

Smiths coarse and case soft

David Weaver

Smiths (i'm sure it's just a purchased brand now) and case have sold stones much like that over the years. I have one almost identical - it's a coarse soft and a stone I love to use with a slurry if the washita doesn't have enough balls to get started in a process.

My opinion is unqualified because I haven't tried that stone, but by aesthetics, I would guess it's less dense than norton's typical soft and not from the same holes that the pike washita came from. The softs from the different retailers are so different than naturalwhetstone's softs a decade ago were billowy and coarse, and their hards were still coarser than dan's fine. I never bought a new norton soft as they're not really that cheap.

But I really like the case/smiths soft that I have because there are times you want coarse and strong cutting but with novaculite (like bevel setting on a razor when a washita will follow).

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#3

Seems about right

Jack Dover

Yeah, it looks a lot like Smiths stones, or at least their pictures. I didn't have high hopes for it to be a real washita, the price seemed to be too good to be true. It's not even close to a lily white and I couldn't find any other picture of a washita streaked like this, most look as they were splashed.

However I like the properties of this stone and it's the first occasion for me to own more than one stone of a particular type. It indeed produces some slurry, but having started with diamond plates I have a habit of wiping it clean. Also I though maybe it's because the stone was new and a bit dusty out of the box.

But this is just my superficial feel of the stone, it definitely has to be used more before I draw any definite conclusion. And for that a box or some enclosure has to be figured, so that it doesn't slide across a table and is easy to clean. I wanted to take a picture of that other stone, but my honing fluid and swarf formed some black, nasty clay-like substance and it was a total mess when I took it out of the box. I'll post that other stone picture later though, just to give a better idea of where this NOS stone might fall on a scale.

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#4

Re: Seems about right

David Weaver

you'll find a use for it. I don't mean that they release particles like a slurry all the time, but rather I'd make my own to take advantage of the cutting speed and use another washita or something to do mid/finer work. that coarse soft leaves a scratch pattern that doesn't seem to be damaged or take as much follow-on honing as a medium diamond stone or something would (and with freshening, it'll be functionally at least as fast and very consistent).

It's one of those things where it may not be what you were expecting, but you'll find a use for it.

I've sold a fair number of japanese stones (at least 100). Every time I had a good stone for surface finish on knives, I happily sold it and people were even happier to buy for a low price from someone who actually checked stones.

Today, I'm wishing I'd kept a couple of them!!

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#5

Re: Seems about right

Jack Dover

Oh yes, the stone is totally useable. Makes me consider splurging for a lily white stone. And yet another soft Arkansas, one would be graded, another will be fresh and for slurry.

Re: slurry. It's probably just dust, there was some dust on it already, also I did a few swipes with a diamond plate just to see how easy that cupping would flatten. Naturally it produced a bit of slurry after oil was added.

Here's that another stone. It was sold as "Washita". Given that the store had an obviously synthetic stone marked as a natural oilstone, it could be anything. The stone was so dirty that maybe it was pun. I had no idea what Washita was at that time, I have even lesser idea today, because if I've learned anything about oilstones these past weeks it's that looks mean little. At that time I wanted something faster than my soft Arkansas and this one is faster indeed.

I now understand why people own so many stones. It's quite fun to pick a particular stone for a particular blade, and it does feel different, I didn't believe it before.




Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#6

That's a washita..

David Weaver

..unmistakable.

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#7

Yay!


Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#8

Rafael from PA

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies *LINK*

Rafael from PA

It came with a hollow and a belly. I worked to get rid of the hollow with some SiC grit, but didn't go nuts on it.

I've used mine a few times. It feels coarse and it's fast. I'm happy with it.

Just for the hell of it I measured its specific gravity and it came out at 2.0. I measured other vintage, unlabeled Washitas I have and most were around 2.3, except one that came at 2.4, that one cuts slowly. The Dan's Whetstones black ark measured 2.6 and it's a very fine stone.

I found this old geological survey of Arkansas describing the Novaculite formations and the whestone industry at that time, 1890. It's an interesting read.


Whetstones and the Novaculites of Arkansas

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#9

Rafael from PA

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies *LINK*

Rafael from PA

Is it possible that what we may have are these "calico" Washitas?

"Coloring matter in the Ouachita stone has been noted as generally indicating a defective stone. This is the rule, but there are a few stones of the first quality which are lightly streaked. There are others containing pretty strongly colored parallel bands independent of the stratification. These are known as "calico" stones. When the coloring is not too strong these may be good; but when the color is marked, the colored stripes are likely to show a difference in texture. The colored stripes may be harder, as when the coloring matter acts as a cement; or softer as when pyrite has been decomposed coloring the stone and leaving it more rotten in consequence of the increase in the number of cavities due to the disappearance of the pyrite crystals. The bands of color in the "calico" stone often form beautiful waves and curves which seem to have no order and no dependence on the composition or structure of the stone; they simply curve about in parallel lines. There may be fifteen or twenty of these bands, varying within the distance of a foot, from pale yellow through red and brown to an almost black color, and dividing the space somewhat evenly with the white bands. But little of this stone finds its way into the market, and then only as of second quality."

Annual report of the Geological Survey of Arkansas / by John C. Branner, State Geologist., 1890:v.3

Pages 110-111


https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044102940343&view=2up&seq=142

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#10

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

Jack Dover

This general description is pretty accurate, the question is what's "light" and "strongly" streaked, exactly? As an owner I'd be insisting my stone's streaks are barely visible. There's definitely no change in consistency.

Anyway, the worst that could happen is dropping and breaking a stone, otherwise can't imagine grinding it to dust in a whole lifetime.

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#11

Rafael from PA

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

Rafael from PA

Here's mine on the right, next to a couple of vintage Washitas. I'd say mine has light streaking.


Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#12

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

David Weaver

Can you get a clearer picture of the stone on the right's surface?

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#13

Rafael from PA

Norton Washita after a few uses 


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Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#14

Rafael from PA

Norton Washita with a microscope

Rafael from PA

I took this picture with one of those cheap USB microscopes. The lines at the bottom indicate millimeters, so that's a square slightly larger than a 1/8" x 1/8".


Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#15

I can't guess...

David Weaver

..the pictures are clear, but there are some characteristics that I can see from most washitas (in terms of the orientation of the pores in the matrix) and some that are present on a majority of other soft arkansas stones.

That looks in between the two to me, and I can't really say much. I was hoping to be able to say yes or no on what they are, but they could be from culled material (I've also seen norton softs that look like washita to me, but I have never purchased a norton soft to be able to tell if they've mixed and matched soft ark material as finer washitas or if it looks like it's from a different territory).

The real acid test with any washita (and I've had true washitas anywhere from 2.05SG to 2.5 SG - a huge range) is that the quality of the edge is better than any soft that I've ever had - including better than the overly fine dan's soft stones. I can fairly easily hone a straight razor on a washita and still get a decent shave, but an equivalently fine/fast soft never seems to do it.

That said, the case soft that I had (which I may have given away, I can't ever keep track) had a much more grainy look than that - close up, it looked like sintered particles, and each individual particle was easy to see. It was very fast but had no ability to cut very finely. I would assume that given reports that novaculite grains are 3-5 microns that the grains were just arranged in "balls" of many grains stuck together.

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#16

Re: Norton Washita after a few uses

Jack Dover

Are those parallel lines gone? I used mine too, flattened it but it's still striped. Yours look more uniform now, like a regular Washita.

Re: Norton Washita from Sharpening Supplies

#17

Rafael from PA

Color banding is still there. 


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