Highland Hardware... Not sure how I feel

I agree

Bill Tindall

That request would have offended me. If I was going to a store to get a saw blade I really wouldn't give a damn what someone posted about the store, well, for that matter I would not know what someone posted about the store. Is the blade available, price and how close is the store are the only things I care about.

Re: I agree

ray

I would think that if a CEO was confident that all his people are always doing their job at a very high level, he wouldn't be concerned about this.

Re: Highland Hardware... Not sure how I feel

wilbur

That's pretty lame.

Having said that, I don't think that's a deliberate attempt to game the system, unless the Highland Hardware folks are a LOT more socially tone deaf than I think they are. My bet is that the Highland Hardware folks don't have a full grasp on the whole internet/social media thing, and basically made an attempt to deal with the situation that wasn't thoroughly thought out.

I think it's a lot like trying to get the pretty girl's friends to talk you up to her so that you have a better chance of getting a date. That strategy usually doesn't work, either.

I don't have an issue with this

Denis Chenard, Orleans, Ont.

While you see the negative review as a troll post (and you seem to be right), there are tons of people a lot less knowledgeable about this whole web issue who will take the troll at face value and will decline to shop at Highland based solely on that review. And while it's despicable, it is in the competitors' interest to see that negative reviews be planted about Highland... Not saying that they are, just sayin'...

In this age it is so easy to tarnish people's reputations, that one has to be vigilant to protect his/hers...

Just checked again the Google Places, now there are 334 reviews and the average rating has jumped to 4.79 out of 5, which is excellent by any means. Who knows how many would have never heard of Google Places without HH suggesting people put in a review (it wouldn't have crossed my mind personally).

While the new reviewers couldn't be forced to write glowing reviews, most seem to have done so. Compared to this morning, where the average score was less than 3 IIRC (thanks to the troll), HH looks a lot better now, and the picture is most probably more accurate. But it took a open letter from HH to help set the record straight (maybe now biased a bit too much on the positive side?).

Goes to say somehow to not put too much trust in online reviews...

DC

Re: I don't have an issue with this

TomD

My biggest beef was they didn't ship to Canada. Back when they had a variety of chair tools, ece, and bowsaws I couldn't get anywhere else, they wouldn't ship here. Fair business decision as far as I am concerned, but I don't have anything nice to say about them either.

Re: fine distinction

bugbear

If the CEO asked the "members" to post reviews, good, bad or middling (i.e. NOT be silent, voice their opinion whatever that opinion may be) I can see no possible objection.

If he specifically asked for favourable reviews I have a definite problem with it.

BugBear

Re: fine distinction

TomD

I probably wouldn't have a problem if he asked only for favourable reviews since if his service is bad there is nothing he can do to stop unfavourable reviews from flooding in, or even untypical bad reviews from being posted. So to a certain extent if he asks for good reviews he is opening the door to anything else that may come along so it amounts to the same thing. I think there is a limit to how fair you have to be in a situation that is already pretty empowering to the normal whiners and misfits.

Re: fine distinction

Neal in San Jose

I agree. I read the results of a study a long time ago that had determined that if you got exceptional service, you were likely to tell three people and if you felt like you had gotten rotten service, you were likely to tell ten.

This makes it even more amazing to me that I've never heard a gripe about Lee Valley!

I've got one

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

They keep coming out with juicy new products faster than my wallet can refill.

Re: Highland Hardware... Not sure how I feel

Moses Yoder

You could always copy your post here and paste it into the review form and post it. I understand wanting to have good reviews, but in order to get them you have to have good customer service and then get your happy customers to post a review. Maybe the next step to getting good reviews would be to tell customers they get 10% off their next purchase if they post a good review, and will be charged 20% more if they post a bad one. Might as well make it just as unopinionated as the evening news.

Re: Highland Hardware... Not sure how I feel

Stephanie Suesan Smith

In my other life I do social media stuff. Google and the other review sites won't do much about trolls, but they will jump all over a company that offers anything in return for a good review -- percentage off, money, coupons. And one bad review, even from an obvious troll, will really penalize a site in the search engine rankings. Fair or not, that is the way things work right now. So while I agree that it was in somewhat poor taste from a woodworker's standpoint, it was brilliant from a marketing standpoint.

Question

Bill Tindall

First, let me say that my marketing knowledge is shall we nicely say "undeveloped". That said, for a company like Highland would their perspective walk in customers give a damn about some Google rating, or even know about it? I just can't imagine needing a dovetail saw and checking with Google before I went to Highland to look at one. I believe that if you know about Highland it is because you already have been there and hence have your first hand opinion, or, some trusted fellow wood worker told you about it.

I can imagine that these sort of ratings might be important for some businesses, say florists, but not something like tools where there is only one competitor in 100 miles, Woodcraft, and the product is more technical. This whole episode illustrates how useless these ratings are and who in the world is left that doesn't know- (I am imagining some twit that twitters and has a face book account but is unlikely to buy a dovetail saw.)

I recently read "Tipping Point". The author makes the case that the avalanche of information on the internet will(or has) made internet information of greatly less value, this episode being a perfect example. The author argues that in the future the "Mavens" will be the place to go when you needs trusted information, for example where to buy a dovetail saw.

I think Highland overreacted and in my eyes cheapened themselves.

I haden't herd of Google places and probably

Phil Joines

will never go there. I do order something from Highland about every 3 or 4 years.

Mail order

John in NM

I suspect is a big part of their business. As distasteful as pimping for reviews is, it seems necessary in the current internet market, in large part due to tolerance of trolls.

Re: Question

TomD

I would be curious to know for the average company like a Lee Valley, Highland, etc... What their walk-in vs. mail order ratio is. I remember seeing some numbers for a large outfit with limited retail, like an LL Bean, and being shocked that it was like 80-20 in favour of walk-in, vs, my assumption it would have been the reverse. Given the number of outlets many "catalog" stores have, maybe I shouldn't have been surprised.

Of course, since Gladwell wrote the book you refer to, the internet is much changed. I think for many products social marketing means the product is the social aspect, more than the product reality. And I see that even in the case of products like Shapton stones around here. So for those products the internet rep is the product. Also, if I do a search for the cheapest price on a product, and I get some unknown supplier, and increasingly comon practice I find, the reputation will be a big factor in my purchase.

From Dilbert...

Denis Chenard, Orleans, Ont.

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/2011-08-07/

Re: Question

James Watriss

I don't really agree that the Internet has changed. Expanded, maybe, but there's still an overwhelming amount of information, let alone commentary.

I did come across a very accurate comment recently, though, that pointed out that if the service is free, then YOU are the product.

I'm willing to be the product in here, once in a while. It's a good venue, and once in a while there's a good debate, or an opinionated brawl. There are times I wonder if Ellis will start a Jerry Springer message board, and simply send moderated threads over there, but my guess is that, long-term, it would be counter-productive. (Might spoil the product, resulting in shrinkage)

Aside from my personal aversion to being solicited for a good opinion, I'm a little disappointed: This tactic might be brilliant marketing, but it also makes for a big smoke-screen that makes the whole thing a little harder to trust. They have a good feedback rating because they asked their regulars. The beginners... Who may not be getting the best service, given the earlier reviews... Will still feel like they're left out of the club, and feel even more disappointed, because the old boy's club spiked the ratings.

Trustworthy ratings come from impartial customers, not fanboys. So, now we don't really know how their customer service is. For that matter, neither do they.

Re: Highland Hardware... Not sure how I feel

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

Yes, I sure do. In my case one of the authors of a book, a very good book, asked me to post my review to a woodworking group(s) to Amazon. I had already posted it where I thought it appropriate, and what I'd said was germane to woodworkers; so she was in effect asking me to rework it for a general audience. And she didn't offer any payment, saying that what I'd posted would be fine. Well it wouldn't have been, lot more caveats for non-woodworkers.

Pam