>I'm sure this question has been asked on this Board before, but my search came up dry. I'm on the verge of ordering a LN 4 1/2 smoother. My question is what frog: common 45 degree pitch, 50 degree York pitch or "middle" pitch at 55 degrees? My 604 with an updated blade and chipbreaker handles 95% of my work, but I've decided I need to move one more notch up the ladder. I work mostly American hardwoods. I'm looking for a finish smoother to handle figured maple and cherry.
>Depends upon the type of wood you are using. If I was using mostly hardwoods and some had a little figure, I'd go with 55 degrees. I have the 50 degree frog in my LN 4 1/2 and it works most of the time. I think you would be much happier though if you had a plane in each configuration so that you would always be prepared for whatever the wood throws your way.
I want to be like Norm and have a router for each bit so I would never have to change another router bit and bust my knuckles.
I have the bronze #4 1/2 with the 50 degree frog, and had the loan of the iron #4 1/2 with the 45 degree frog for about a year. I used them side-by-side. One of the conclusions I came to, on the hard, interlinked wood I use, was that there was not a significant enough difference between the two angles to warrant having both. It would be more meaningful to have 45- and 55 degree set ups.
Now if LN brought out a 60 degree frog !! ...... are you listening, Thomas? :)
>I think at that point you're better off just buying a bevel up plane and buying extra blades.
For myself, I have a Lie-Nielsen 4C with the york pitch frog, and as long as I keep my blades sharp it handles pretty much anything. I'm still curious about the york pitch frog, but not that curious, yet.
With respect to Jim, whose advice makes perfect sense (but just not in this circumstance), there is some strong opinion that indicates the purchase of a 50 degree frog would be an unnecessary expense on top of the 45 degree frog, and that a 55 degree frog is the recommended next step up from a 45.
It is not just my finding, nor Bill's, but also that of Ron Brese (planemaker). We all arrived at this conclusion independently. Below is a link to a discussion I had with Ron.
To test this out for yourself, try a backbevel on a couple of spare blades to simulate the frog angles.
Thanks for the link to the discussion on the FWW site. That'e the kind of discussion I was looking for. My thinking was not to buy the common pitch frog and the York pitch, but to get the plane with the York pitch only, as a compromise between the 45 degree and 55 degree frogs. As I mentioned, I don't do much work with really nasty woods like you guys have in Oz, and my 604 handles most of my needs. If I find that the York pitch isn't enough, I can always go back the the well and get the middle pitch frog (what's $75 among friends).
One thing I didn't mention is that I have a nice Norris A5 that I use. This is probably heresy, but I find it finiky to keep adjusted properly and I've gotten tired of fooling with it. I'm looking to replace it as my main finish smoother. My kid bought it in London gave it to me, so I'll keep it for sentimental reasons and probably continue to use it some.
Do you think there is enough benefit in the 55 degree frog, given my use, to undermine my rationale?
An unused Norris, eh? Yeah, nasty planes, aren't they! :) Actually, I think a 50 degree LN #4 1/2 could well better it in most respects.
I was under the impression that you already had a 45 degree LN #4 1/2 ... ? If not, then I would agree with your decision to go for the 50 degree frog bearing in mind the wood you will use. I expect a 45 degree LN to better a 45 degree #604 (I have a highly tuned #604 with LN blade and cap iron - nice plane but, compared with other planes with high cutting angles, it is limited to softer woods and straight grain). And of course you are correct, if you are willing to purchase another frog if needed, then it is not really worth making an issue. Which ever frog you get, you will have a great plane. Enjoy!
>I'll go with the 50. I have several LN planes, but no LN bench planes. I think a 4 1/2 will be a nice addition. I know your preferance for the LV planes, so I appreciate your encouraging thoughts on the LN 4 1/2.