Wrench question? *LINK*

I think we agree, but don't get me started........

cooper suter

>....on the Amish.

This guy has worked many years in the trades, he is employable at journeyman wages, he can organise a crew, layout a job, and execute the work, sounds like a journeyman to me.

Now if you tell me he's claiming all the above, but he's 20 and been doing it for a couple of summers, we're going to have to disagree.

Right from the start, I stated that, "There also are plenty of great tradesmen who never served an apprenticeship, but they certainly have needed to put more than a couple of summers into mastering a trade."

Folks, the issue here is TIME on the job, and in the trade.

So far as the Amish, at least locally, THE reason they get work is because they are CHEAP.

Period.

Locally they are brought in by regional contractors to do large scale panelized framing jobs.

It's not that they are more skilled, efficient, or harder working that gives them a competitive/cost edge.

In the name of religion they avoid pay taxes, social security, insurance premiums, workers comp, or obey child labor laws, or OSHA regs., or national labor laws (such as OT).

It's funny that those same religious strictures don't stop them from running powertools, or air nailers, or riding two hours in a van to make money.

When they do get injured on local jobs, they show up at local ER's and get treated as indigents which drives up our local premiums.

Coop.

We're beginning to get into peoples' religion

Wiley Horne--So. Calif.

>at this point. Please no more in this vein.

Wiley....as Moderator

Maybe I spoke too soon?

Martin from Granbury

>

Or at all?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

The trouble with titles of any sort...

John in New Mexico

>Is that they rarely reflect a person's abilities. I've worked around professional electricians who I'd give the boot to in about two seconds if it were my decision. Some have been just plain stupid, some have not cared whether their work was the best it could be even when they know the right answers. I've also known some whose knowledge, experience, and understanding of their trade far eclipse anything I'm ever going to acheive. They all share the same title.

Bottom line is, building ain't rocket science. There's a whole lot of people out there who can pick up trades well enough to get by with little more that some study of principles and some OTJ training. Are they really so much worse than a person with 20 years experience who STILL does lousy work? Both these workers are in the minority - but it would be foolish to fail to recognize that both exist.

With absolutely nothing to back it up, I'll say that the most important lesson to be learned from experience in any field is that the worker should never attempt to pass sub-standard work as acceptable. I think one reason there are so many excellent workers who start as hobbyists is that they learn this lesson in other fields, whether as computer programers, auto mechanics, geologists, or whatever. The best tradesmen I know are smart enough to have been whatever they chose - rocket scientist included. Add 20 odd years tradework to that and you do have a master craftsman, whatever his or her actual title may be.