Sneak Peek: Hamler scraper plane attachment

Re: Sneak Peek: Hamler scraper plane attachment

Steve Evans

>Ellis

I'm jealous. I got a chance to try it at Sindelar's and it really is a well designed unit. Seems to be pretty foolproof to set. My name is on Paul's list as well, but apparently I don't have as much pull as you ;). Looking forward to getting one, once Paul has some ready.

Steve

Hey, that's pretty nifty.

vlparisian - Houston

>

Re: Hey, that's pretty nifty.

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>I might get one. Excuse me for asking, but aren't most of the "conversions" based on the #5? I think making one for a #7 is going to be better, and is a good idea.

T.O.

This one is for the #4 1/2 - 5 1/2 - 6 - 7 frogs

Ellis Walentine, Host

>I dunno the width of a #8 because I've never owned one. The L-N version fits Bedrocks of this width.

Ellis

2 5/8"

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>

Hamler's new creation

Ellis Walentine, Host

>I loaned my Hamler scraper to an old woodworking pal and toolmaker, Bill McCarthy, so he could take it for a shakedown cruise. I asked him to write me a little report of his impressions, and here's what he had to say...

"When Ellis called me to say he had received Paul Hamler�s prototype scraper insert for Stanley planes for the last week, I couldn't wait to test it out on a job where it could be used to its full potential. I am building a traditional Sheraton dining table out of some lovely ribbon-stripe mahogany, and my glue-ups, 42" wide, exceeded the capacity of my 37-inch wide belt sander. So I decided to put Paul�s new creation to the test. It worked great!

"Removing the frog assembly from a Stanley #7 jointer plane, I replaced it with Paul�s scraper assembly which fits right in. After sharpening the scraper blade to 45� and rolling the edge over in a two-stage burnishing operation, I installed the blade with Paul's frog assembly set at about an 80�-85� angle. Then I placed the plane on a flat surface (a flat board) bottom down, dropped in the blade, being careful to get blade parallel to sole of plane, and tightened the knurled set screw.

"I started to adjust the blade by turning the knurled adjustment knob counterclockwise just a little bit, then I checked to see if it had begun to cut. Paul has improved on the Stanley #12 concept by using a 32-tpi screw thread coupled with nylon washers and a stiff spring. This makes the adjustment much more sensitive than that of the Stanley 18-tpi screw. In addition, the spring takes all the backlash out of the adjustment(!), a definite improvement over the Stanley method of loosening one knob and tightening the other. On Hamler's mechanism, turning the knob in a counterclockwise direction increases the depth of cut and turning it clockwise lessens the cut. On figured wood, scraping with the plane held at a skew angle helps, and it makes no difference which way the grain goes.

"I love anything that helps eliminate hand sanding. With a properly sharpened scraper blade Paul's scraper insert cuts beautifully. I removed all the planer marks and minor discrepancies of the glue up and scraped my dining table dead-nuts flat in very short order. I give Paul�s new creation two thumbs up! My order went in immediately."

Comment on "Dead Nuts"...

woodburnbob

>...as in Mr. McCarthy's metaphor: "...and scraped my dining table dead-nuts flat in very short order."

I think slicing softer woods is superior to scraping them. In this sense, I've always thought of mahogany as a soft wood. But, I suppose if you normally use a "37-inch wide belt sander" as Mr. McCarthy suggests is his preference, I can see that scraping might be safer than planing.

But what really caught my eye was "dead-nuts flat". Not its use as hyperbole, but its etymology. The immediate choices for referents are: 1) hex-nuts for bolts, and 2) male gonads. What's flat about live nuts that go dead? So I rushed to Google for resolution.

For those following my path, there's not much on dead nuts flat. The productive searches are two. The first is "dead nuts", where the quick among you will note on the right of the screen a sponsored link to Ebay for "Dead Nuts" ... which I didn't click. The second,"dead nuts on" is where the scholars among you will be best rewarded.

You might click some of the links to confirm or refute what you think you already know. I learned several things I didn't already know.

To wit: an online "Dictionary of Love, Lust & Sex" offers this interpretation of the term dead nuts on.

Speaking only for myself, I think I'll avoid using the term in public.

Contrary to other scraper inserts I've seen

Frank D. in Montreal

>This one looks like it would work quite well. I love my 112, I use it a lot, but I can see how this attachment would be a useful addition, allowing me to scrape with a longer plane if necessary. Any price point?

Paul's still working out the cost

Ellis Walentine, Host

>I'm sure he will let us know when the price has been determined.

Ellis

A little more info...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I've talke to Paul about this, he trying to keep the price around $125.00. Please, don't quote me on this. As Ellis has stated he's working on the true cost of the insert. Shown is the LN/Bedrock version

Another shot 

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>

Somehow...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I'm sure Paul's work is impeccable and that the insert works very well. But $125 (assuming for now that this will be the price), PLUS a LN plane costing $300 at a minimum ($400 for a #7), that makes for an expensive piece of equipment... Granted, one can switch between the insert and the frog, but how many will do that, I wonder, that's rather inconvenient...

Keep in mind that a new scraper plane from LV costs $150 and one from LN $210...

The concept of a long scraper plane is interesting, and if I had a Stanley Bailey #6 or #7 gathering dust in a corner I'd be most interested in getting an insert, whether I need one or not...

I'm not saying that the insert is too expensive, just that if one needs to buy a plane to put the insert in, then the whole thing becomes a bit pricey.

DC

Yabbut....

Wiley Horne--So. Calif.

>Denis,

Every word you posted is true. But. Paul Hamler's insert can create a jointer-length scraper--like for that ribbon strike mahogany table top that Mr. McCarthy was talking about. And it can be any Bailey type No. 6 or 7 jointer you already own (as I understand it).

When Konrad got back from the show in Michigan, he was very high on this Hamler insert, and had ordered one.

Wiley

That's how I see it

Frank D. in Montreal

>I have a Bailey #7 that gathers dust most of the time. Set up as a scraper, it would make a nice complement to my 112, and would only really cost me the price of the insert (I absorbed the purchase price long ago, and I'd probably use a blade that I already have too). On the rare occasions that I use it as a carpentry plane, it would only take me a few minutes to put the frog back in. I also think you'd have to be a little crazy to buy a LN just to use it as a scraper plane with the insert; scraper planes are quite forgiving and easy to push, so you don't need a lot of mass to plane difficult woods (not to mention that the plane can even have a chipped mouth to no ill effect). For someone with a 4 1/2 lying around, it would still come out cheaper than a 112, and you could always switch it back to plane mode if you really wanted.

Re: Yabbut....

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I don't have any plane that takes a 2 3/8" blade. Used to have a #6 but I refurbished it and gave it to my BIL since it was his grandfather's (when my in-laws moved to a retirement home, there was this ratty toolbox that nobody wanted, I looked at the inside and there was a number of tools, including the #6, all rusted up, I salvaged those before they went to the dump...)

Oh well, maybe I'll find a #7 for cheap, like a buddy of mine who found a 607 for $45...

DC

a question

dave brown

>I'm really intrigued by Paul's work and would love to be able to justify a new toy but I've got a few questions. Does this unit in a 4-1/2 do a better job than my LN 112? I do get some chatter from the 112 if I don't skew the body when I'm taking a cut so does the higher mass of 4-1/2 or a 5-1/2 with the insert make for the big improvement?

Is the only other benefit of the design the fact that you can put it into a jack or jointer length plane whereas all other scraper planes are smoother sized?

Paul doesn't have a website. Where do you sign up to be put on a list?

Re: Sneak Peek: Hamler scraper plane attachment

Dean J in MN

>I guess I'm dumb -- but lots of folks are saying put this in a long plane. Long planes make things flat. A scraper makes things smooth. Smooth != flat. In fact, I'd hate a long smoother for example. I want my smoothing tool to be able to smooth non-flat surfaces. I can see an insert in a short plane for those who don't like the possible hollow a card scraper can leave, but I just don't get this in a long tool.

What am I missing here? Flatten the board with a long plane, yes there may be tearout on difficult lumber -- but you hit that with a short plane to smooth. Perhaps I don't work with the same lumber as folks suggesting this in a long tool?

Confused in MN,

-Dean

Re: Sneak Peek: Hamler scraper plane attachment

Joel

>You are correct in the traditional way wood is milled but

in the modern world when most people mill wood by machine so what you get is a long flat board with ripples that a long scraper plane would be perfect to remove the ripples, without worrying about tearout and without worrying about losing accuracy by selective planing. So I think this attachment has a real application in a modern shop with longer boards and modern, not so perfect timber - or exotics with crazy grain.

Re: Sneak Peek: Hamler scraper plane attachment

Dean J in MN

>Ah -- see, it was a matter of perspective. That modern world threw me...

Thanks!

-Dean

Hi Dave, Maybe Ellis will chime in here...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>

Doh! Hit the post buttom too soon.

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I'm on the waiting list for one. Ellis and a few others have some of the first ones produced. Guess you'll have to wait for one of the lucky ones to repply to your question.

As far Paul goes, he has no mailing list to speak of.

I bought one of the Miller's patent planes from him and we've exchanged a few emails about his planes.

I'm waiting for a few of his other goodies to hit the production line (so to speak) as well as the scraper insert.

edge life

dave brown

>Which edge would last longer, the blade in a high angle smoother or the blade in a scraper plane?

I'd like to do a comparison test...

Ellis Walentine, Host

>...of the various scraper planes and scraper inserts that are now available, including L-N, Lee Valley's and Hamler's. I did use the Lee Valley scraper when Leonard first introduced it, and I recall liking it.

Absent a controlled test, my hunch is that if you sharpen any of these tools very precisely and pitch the blade at just the right angle, they would all take a nice shaving. I'm guessing that the difference is mostly in the angle adjustment mechanism. The fine pitch screw and simple adjustment knob of Hamler's insert is probably its major advantage.

Ellis

Plane length for scraping

Ellis Walentine, Host

>The nice thing about a scraper that replaces a standard 2 3/8" plane frog is that it will fit any plane that takes that frog, including the #4 1/2, #5 1/2, #6 and #7, so you can pick the length that suits the objective at hand.

Ellis Walentine, Host