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Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

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Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#1

Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Michael Brady

>I have acquired almost all of my newer tools from the same sources that are favorably discussed in this forum, and have not been as drawn to antique tools as many of you have. In the last week, I have come to appreciate quality new tools, because in trying to fill some voids in my tool collection, I have had several poor experiences with internet vintage tool dealers. Is it my inexperience or are antique dealers the horse traders of the tool world? I have encountered items being substituted for what I bought, and items being advertised that had been actually been sold out of the inventory some time ago. From now on I think I'll try to put my hands on the desired item before I part with my money. Is there any kind of list of vetted vintage tool dealers that I could consult?

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#2

Re: My experience

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>Michael--

I've purchased quite a few old tools off of ebay and I'd say 95+% of the time I've gotten what I thought I was buying -- I've only had two cruddy experiences. One was a froe that was listed as having some "chipping" along the edge (picture was miserable) and when I got it, I found it must have been sitting outside for more than 50 years -- that "chipping" was rust pitting up to 1/8" deep (no kidding -- it was literally rotten). It's now a yard ornament (SWMBO loves it). The other was a Stanley 48 that had a crack in the fence the seller neglected to mention. I didn't pay enough for either one to be worth sending it back, so I just wrote it off to experience. Some of the people I've purchased from know tools, others were just folks buying things on speculation at estate sales. Overall though, ebay has been a boon to me, because decent tools are a rarity at sales up this way, and I'd rather spend my time using tools than hunting for them. I can find most anything I want on Ebay, whenever I want it (more or less).

No affiliations, but on ebay, I've bought from several tool sellers who I think tend to have decent tools, know enough about them to set your expectations where they should be, and complete the deal in a businesslike way. "robwrs" tends to have good user tools that are properly described. Someone on this forum sells a lot under the name "mrsdeadhorse" (I'll let him ID himself if he chooses to). "eoriordan" and "dumpstercollectibles" are two other old tool specialists I've purchased from and felt good about. I'd suggest cruising the listings and when you see a listing that seems to be written by someone that knows what they're talking about, check to see how many items they've sold, and if it's a fair number, then save them as a favorite seller and check out their other items. There are lots of stories here about ebay deals gone south, but in my experience, the vast majority end up positive. I've also found that the prices I've paid on ebay have generally been below the prices I see as retail listing from most internet tool dealers selling directly. Of course, if they go very high (relative to value), I don't buy.

If you're not into sharpening your own handsaws, that may be a place where it pays to buy from a known seller who refurbs the saws.

Bottom line, I don't think it's a problem buying old tools over the web.

Best,

Dave

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#3

A good dealer and very trustworthy/honest

Andrew F in Australia

>No affiliation, etc..., just a customer for a while back.

Andrew

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#4

don't know what happenned to the *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au


http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#5

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

mikew

>Hi Michael,

Of course not knowing who is/are the dealers you have had problems with, I may name some you have not had good dealings with.

All but one deal I have done with several--many--different vintage tool dealers have been good to great. Hans Brunner has been mentioned and I have enjoyed what I bought from him. Several in the UK I have had really good dealings with, and 4 to 5 here in the US as well.

Jon Zimmers, Pat Leach, Lee Richmond, spring to mind as ones in the US I will buy from again and again. Murland, Andy Stephens [Tool Bazaar], Paul Francis at http://www.oldtools.co.uk/, and a couple others in the UK have been great.

I think one of the things which I look for is whether they will take something back. Sure, the cost of shipping is on me for a return, but it is an assurance.

As mentioned by another, eBay has treated me well. A couple poor purchases which I chalk up to finding something with too little time for communication to make sure I know the condition.

I hope your experience hasn't soured you altogether because there are decent vintage tools to be had from those and other on-line dealers. But as with eBay, there's always a risk.

Take care, Mike

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#6

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

David Charters (Durham, NC)

>I've gotten almost all of my handtools off of eBay, and think it has been a great deal. The only times I have been burned were with a #65 block plane with a hairline crack at the mouth, and a #4 1/2 with a crack. Both of these were very discrete and probably not even noticed by the seller. Hey does anyone have a 3 patent date #4 1/2 base around? It was going to be my go to smoother. Considering I got all my hand planes for the price of a couple Lie Nielsens it's worth a lemon or two.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#7

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Depending on where you live Michael, you might be able to either visit one of the dealers or drive a few hours to one of the many used tool auctions. I have never been comfortable with buying used stuff off ebay so I've never even registered. It's a quirky thing Iknow, but I like to wrap my mitts around the tool, inspect it, and compare it to others. If you live in New England, theree are the RI Spicer Auctions (2-3 per year), 3 MJD Live Free or Die auctions in NH, and occasionally some others. Each is accompanied by a tailgate session in the parting lot where there are plenty more tools. PA has 2 auctions in Harrisburg run by Clarence Blanchard, ther are 2 MJD LFOD auctyions in Indianalolis, and the MWTCA has some of their own. The west coast has some too. Opportunities abound with a little planning.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#8

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant) *LINK*

Wiley Horne--So. Cal.

>I won't rename the others named above, esp. by Mike Wenzloff.

But would like to add Sandy Moss. You'll never go wrong with Sandy Moss. I've ordered many things from him. See link below.

Wiley


Sandy Moss' website

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#9

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Rob Lee

>naaah....

Don't go to those auctions.....

There's nothing there....

Move along now..... ;)

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#10

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Ernie Miller

>I'm sure no one here is interested in the little trinkets you look for.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#11

If your talkin Ebay...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Dave has a good list of reputable sellers both on and off da'bay. You can add Mr. Peabody (AKA Patrick Leach), redstuntman, yesteryearsharvest, ifonlythesetoolscouldtalk, just to name a few.

Scott, Who has only been burned once on ebay.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#12

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Dan Donaldson

>Interested, yes, afford, no ;-)

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#13

Heh, Heh, Heh....

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>I suppose that means I'll see you Friday.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#14

Re: Heh, Heh, Heh....

Rob Lee

>Unfortunately not.... but we will have someone there with instructions.... and have put in a few absentee bids...

Tough to get away this time of year (weather doesn't help much either!)...

Have fun - and hope the skies stay clear for the lot action!

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#15

Rob,you do know...

Andy Lincoln,In Dearborn MI

>we have Tim Horton's here in the States as well as that Canadian summer pasttime you refer to as hockey.It is even broadcast on the television here,although I find myself watching it on CBC more than any other station(I enjoy the commercials being different,as well as the commentaries and insights),but now that the VS. network and NBC are broadcasting in HD it's getting harder to watch the CBC.And while I've got your attention Windsor would be an excellent Canadian location for a store...certainly cheaper than that island Chico wants you to build on....

Andy Lincoln

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#16

I'll add one...

John in New Mexico

>I was very pleased with a purchase from "The Best Things". My only complaint with their site is that its hard to quickly browse for new additions. Prices probably too high for the auction guys, but so are most online dealers.

I won't buy from one of the guys on Mike's list anymore, due to the substitution of a shopmade plane for the one pictured before the purchase. I would have bought it anyway, though probably wouldn't have paid so much, and I have no doubt he would have refunded my money if I'd asked. But the trust is gone.

John

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#17

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Todd Hughes

>I don't know anything about a list of "vetted" tool dealers but as someone that sells alot on the ebay I sure would like to see the list of "vetted" troublesome buyers !.....You know the ones that don't believe they have to pay for what they buy if they don't want to, Leave you a negative if you leave them one for not paying after you waited 2 months to be paid, have trouble reading descriptions asking you how wide is the chisel that's auction title and description says 1/2 inch in two places...OH and believe that you must be the amazing Kreskin so they don't have to include with the payment what it is for....even after you ask them to in capital letters !

.....Other day I got a MO that not only didn't give me a hint what it was for but didn't even have a name or address anywhere on it or the envolope! .....Todd

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#18

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Michael Brady

>Thanks to Mike W. and Rob Lee who represent how business should be done, and all others who answered. I need to follow your suggestions to conclusion and acclimate myself to the antique world where what one buys may truly be unique, instead of plentiful as in the new-tool realm. One of my less-than-satisfactory experiences was with one of your named favorites, but everyone has a bad day, and I'm sure it was an unintentional error. On I go along the the learning curve.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#19

Re: I'll add one...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I won't buy from one of the guys on Mike's list anymore, due to the substitution of a shopmade plane for the one pictured before the purchase. I would have bought it anyway, though probably wouldn't have paid so much, and I have no doubt he would have refunded my money if I'd asked. But the trust is gone.

Geesh, John, I truly don't understand the reluctance of you guys to name names. Instead, it seems you'd rather tar everyone with suspicion rather than the one with whom you're disappointed. It seems to me far superior to name the names and allow that one plus any happy customers to stick up for him.

Now you guys have always said, "We want to protect this guy's right to do business." I find this ridiculous. Why do you want to protect a bad vendor's right to take everyone's money with impunity? How about my right to do business without getting ripped off? How about telling the bad vendor to find another way to do business?

Pam

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#20

I'll Second Sandy

Tom MacGregor

>

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#21

Not at all...

John in New Mexico

>If I had called him on it and been rebuffed, I'd have no compunction about naming names. Fact is, I kept the plane, rationalized the decision, and don't really feel cheated as such. The point of relating the story is that the OP's caution or even cynicism is somewhat justified even when others may endorse the seller. Views about what constitutes appropriate business practice vary, and perhaps its just a reminder to stay aware of that, save a picture of what was listed, check the merchandise, and return it if appropriate.

John

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#22

Good point, Pam!

David Barnett - SW Florida

>I'd agree that if one is reluctant to name names when one's trust has been violated, one should be at least equally reluctant to cast aspersions so broadly upon the trustworthy.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#23

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Michael Brady

>I appreciate Todd's perspective from the seller's side. It's definitely true that a good business transactiopn is one in which both parties are happy.

One dealer I talked to today said that he only clears his sold listings once a month. My daddy used to say that you can't sell from an empty wagon. Reminds me of the story of the store keeper who always refused to sell the last remaining item because, if he did, people would say he was out of stock! I'm glad to hear from you all that there are some good sources out there that I need to get to know. Thanks.

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#24

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

Mike L (Orange County, CA)

>Todd,

Surely you must have a crystal ball or Tarot cards somewhere over by the stacks of anvils, saws, or shrunken heads.

Regards,

Mike

Re: Vintage tool dealer problems (slight rant)

#25

Re: Boring Statistics

paul womack

>The trouble with people naming "bad dealers" (i.e. dealers they've had bad experience with) is that very few people mention good experiences unless they're truly exceptional.

This means that the third party observer (that's us) has no idea wether the "bad dealer" has 50% bad transactions or 0.01 % bad transactions.

This means that, although the report of the bad transaction may be honest and in good faith, it actually provides little basis for judgement, due to lack of context.

BugBear

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