Re: more problems than sawing
ThomD
>"It would work very well, provided you already have certain skillsets, such as cutting to a line and cutting square. In fact, Klaus goes the extra mile to "almost" preach the need to practice prior to even beginning to attempt to cut via his methods."
I read that article too Tony.
I think that is a large part of the problem, certainly mine. It was years before I practiced everything, I put it off until I had a valuable piece of wood in a project, that would probably be wrecked if my dovetails didn't come off. It's a basic idea in high performance that one should mentally articulate what is practice and what is performance. Many mix the two together with predictably bad results.
Since there can be long gaps between woodworking, at times, for me, I also take a scrap and do some "practice swings" before I go into any dovetailing. Mostly I practice straight parallel lines without any layout.
"He also stated very clearly that anyone reading his article should use the methods that feel right and give the best results."
Maybe that's partly an adaptation to our sensitivity culture. While I enjoyed his personality in his early FWW videos, it was a bit like Arnold's early movies. FK wasn't so reticent about laying it down earlier on... On the other hand I don't claim it's the best method of dovetailing, I think it's a great method to practice them, to learn hand skills for a beginner.
To look at it a little differently, think of riding a bike. Most of us need the training wheels. Regular training wheels at least give you an occasional feeling of balancing on the main wheels. A lot of riding on a trike is probably not going to teach you how to balance a bike. However, after learning how to ride with the training wheels, eventually they come off. I think that is the point where I learned the most, the fastest about riding a bike. The great leap forward moment. The deep end is a great classroom, out of the comfort zone. Happily no falling or sinking involved with dovetails.
Bill:
"1. He does pins first. Much harder to learn to cut tails precisely"
I won't argue that, it seems to be a fact that the craft over centuries has been a pin first craft for casework, but if the opposite appeals to people that's fine. Perhaps the only reason casework is so often laid out pins first is because the pin sides are often shorter, which maters if you are using gravity. In the broader craft there are proven examples of pins first (casework), tails first (a lot of timber work), both separately (musical instruments). If you can handle the basics, you can do all that stuff.
With actual respect, I would point out that you are the one having the trouble with joint offset and in need of a marking jig. Do you ever get the feeling that maybe some of these guys with lots of experience, might be on to something. One part of what they did within their commercial environment was train beginers...
I'm going to come back to this lower down. (see dualities)
"2. Eye-ball layout. That will stop almost all beginners at step 1."
That may be true, but it is the single most powerful part of the technique for beginners. It frees up the saw stroke, gives them practice time. Gets the brain as backseat driver out of the way. Doing the eyeball layout itself is not difficult at all. It's not even all that difficult to make handsome joints that way. The eye has a natural centering function built right in. For super clean work I don't do it, but for average stuff it works great. I have made some ugly proportions that way. I'll share pictures. But as far as getting a structurally sound joint, that most people will praise, it's simple. It doesn't work well for asymmetry, and I lay that kind of stuff out carefully.
"3. I am somewhat beyond beginner and I still can't hand hold the pieces to precisely make the transfer markings, be they tails or pins. Hence, the start of this whole affair."
Somewhere along the line the pieces get too big. But for the smaller drawer and case pieces I haven't had much problem. Even if the piece moves, you just plunk it back. This is where it gets tricky though, are you doing his method or using your marking knife, and cutting tails first etc... It's a system.
Obviously if you are teaching a class and you aren't happy with a method yourself, if your convincing...
OK, I'm going to pick the part I referred to above in a post called "dualities". Sorry to go on, but I do think people are missing some fun.