More adventures in planemaking -- #6 hollow

Re: Bottom view 

Dave Mount

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Re: More adventures in planemaking -- #6 hollow

vlparisian in cold and dreary Houston

>Nice job with that. Can I come over and play?

I envy your shop time. (Scott burr would say "You Suck".) The thing I hate most about Houston is there is no real winter here where construction etc slows dramatically. I would love to escape the mad pace of business and spend a week in my work shop. That just doesn't happen here.

Oh well, got to get W-2s and other filings in the mail today.

Victor - in overcast and cold Houston

Really nice

jim reed @ tallahassee

>That is one really nice looking plane. Nice to see that you have that MN climate working in your favor. I find that my York pitch H&Rs work better on hardwoods. Have you experimented with the bedding angle?

Congrats again Dave

Dean Lapinel

>How do you cut your blades out of the sheet of metal?

Re: Really nice

Dave Mount

>Hey Jim--

I haven't experimented as in trying different angles, but I've read elsewhere that York pitch is better for cabinetry (i.e., hardwood) applications, which squares with your experience. I made this one at 50 degrees based on that.

Unfortunately, a concave profile doesn't lend itself to back-beveling, which would make actual experimentation with effective pitch easier.

Thanks for the comments,

Dave

P.S. Thanks also for the consultation on shaping irons.

Great Post

Jim in Burlington On

>Looks like a big bunch of fun to me. It's to bad about the knot.

Re: Shaping irons *LINK*

Dave Mount

>Hi Dean--

I started with a piece of 1/8" x 3/8", so it was already cut to the width of flag, I just had to trim the tang down to 1/4". I did that with a hacksaw, which works fine except that the length of the tang is longer than the distance from the cutting edge of the saw to the back beam of the saw. For the last inch or so, I have to tilt the saw one way or the other so the back doesn't interfere with the tang. I just alternate sides every few strokes to keep it more or less on the line, then clean the whole thing up with a file to straighten it and smooth out the bumps.

To shape the profile I ground the end to 30 degrees straight across, then used a 1/2" round file for a really rough initial shaping, followed by auto body sandpaper wrapped around 1/2" and 3/4" dowels to tune it up. A little fussy, mostly because of having to keep taking the iron out of the vise and putting it into the plane to check progress, then back to the vise again, but it wasn't too bad.

After the iron was hardened and tempered I cleaned up with 400 and 600 grit wet or dry on dowels, followed by the LV green compound (rouge, whatever it's called; link below) on a wood dowel. That green compound is pretty amazing stuff -- you wouldn't think something that fine could cut as fast as it does. Green stuff on a piece of MDF has become my final polish for the backs of chisel and plane irons and you get an absolute mirror in just seconds. Its slickness makes freehand honing easy too.

Best,

Dave


LV Green Stuff

Sweet plane. Watch out, I'm right behind you...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Dave. I just received the Todd's DVD on making H&R's. As soon as I complete a few projects I'll be starting my own set. Thanks for posting these it's been a great help. Oh yea, nice curlies!

Is there a reference to what Number H&R corresponds to what size it is?

Very nice!

Frank D. in Montreal

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Re: Very nice!

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>I apologize for covering the board with posts

Huh? Have i been missing some of your posts? I beater use the Search feature and see.

Dave, you really have progressed in your plane making abilities, and must say rather quickly at that! This is a fine looking little plane, and I think that by overcoming the "knot problem" is not only another sign to yur skill and ability, but also adds a bit to the plane as well. I think you deserve a huge BRAVO!

Did you make your own floats? I haven't got to it yet, but it's getting closer and closer. If you did make your own floats what did you use, and what bits of wisdom to you have to share concerning the making of them?

I, like Scott, also enjoying seeing shavings along with a homemade tool.

Todd O.

Re: H&R size terminology

Dave Mount

>Well, there's supposed to be a system but my understanding is that it's not always followed.

The rule is that the number size is the radius of the round/hollow in 16ths of an inch. So I made a #6, which equals a radius of 6/16 or 3/8". Because the arc of the plane bed is also 1/6 of a circle, the radius also equals the width of the iron (also 3/8" in the plane I showed).

Having stated the rule, I've heard that it's not always followed, and have firsthand evidence of it. I have a vintage left-handed round that's stamped very clearly #6 on the end, but the iron is 1/2" wide, which should make it a #8.

Herr Herrli also explains this very clearly in the video you will soon be watching.

Best,

Dave

Re: Floats, knots, etc.

Dave Mount

>Hi Todd--

No, I don't have floats. I've got the steel and they're on the list, but I haven't made them.

Because I don't have floats, making the wedge mortise by drilling and chiseling alone seemed like kind of a hassle. In part for that reason, I've been making these planes by splitting the blank at will be the non-escapement side of the finished mortise. I rip 1/4" (plus a little for cleanup) off what will be the non-escapement side of the blank. I then have access to the "insides" of the plane. I cut the wedge mortise as an "open mortise" on the piece representing the escapement side of the plane -- this is basically a dado with non-parallel sides. I also establish the bed and breast cuts (the open part of the mortise in the finished plane, where the iron and escapments are) with the blank cut open. By doing the wedge mortise as an open mortise, wasting out the mortise and cleaning the bottom is easy, just paring with a chisel, or you could use a router plane with a narrow iron. After that's done you glue the blank back together and voila, the wedge mortise, bed, and breast cuts are all done with very little skill required, no digging around in narrow mortises, and no need for floats. I drill holes in the blank before cutting it apart so I can re-align everything with dowels afterward, but that's probably not necessary -- just helps you keep the mouth tight because you don't have to trim anything off after reassembly. These holes are why you end up seeing the dowel ends or plugs in the sides of the planes.

Because I use this technique, the knot in the current plane wasn't a big deal -- a little tough paring, but not like trying to go through a knot with a mortise chisel where the twisty grain would drive you nuts.

I am interested in doing the full Monty by drilling the wedge mortise the way Herrli shows, but for now, this method works for me. And hey, if I can do it, anyone can -- now that your vises are done, you better make one yourself. . .

Best,

Dave

Nice work Dave...

John in New Mexico

>I kinda like that knot.

I've got a couple hollows & rounds to make to fill out my set, I may have to try your method.

John

Size standards

Jim Reed @ Tallahassee

>Seems like they all started with the #1 about the same and then went in their own directions as the planes got larger. I have seen measurement comparisons on the web. A search may save you some time.

Re: Floats, knots, etc.

Ben Franklin

>Since I was too blind to see your dowels at first glance, I was assuming that your narrative about them would end with: "And then the ends, including the dowels (which are located in the waste) are cut off when the body is sized to final length."

...or something like that.

Ben Franklin

Thanks!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

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Re: More adventures in planemaking -- #6 hollow

Ernie Miller

>Interesting idea splitting the body like that and reglueing? you are going to have to let one of them set some where the humidity swings alot and let us know who it continues to work? Scratching my head trying to think why it won't work instead of how it will.

Re: Floats, knots, etc.

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>now that your vises are done, you better make one yourself. .

I intend on doing just that Dave. First, I need to re-watch the video. Slow learner-fast forgetter you know. ;~)

I also got it in my head to hack up saome sawblades to make scratchers and such.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! it sure is nice to finally have a functional shop, as now I can get started on all these "I want to do that" kinda' things. :~)

Tanks for the Inspiration Dave!

T.O.

Re: humidity and glue lines

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Ernie, this is a very thin plane, so I doubt if it will make much difference whether the moisture will transpire through the glue line, since the glue line is never far from an exposed side.

Dave, great job, I love the idea of using dowels to realign the plane after slicing. Did Herrli suggest that? I sure don't remember it, but it's been a year or two since my last viewing.

Pam

Re: dowels and alignment

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>Sorry to step in here - I'm just a newbie, really.

I made a couple of Krenov style smoothers, using Hock blade sets. That process, the one they document on the College of the Redwoods site, uses dowels for alignment and reattachment. How does that differ significantly from the (really nice) plane Dave made?

Psssssssssst, Dave,

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>Lets see the other side now eh?

T.O.

Re: dowels and alignment

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I suppose it's not. I personally don't do Krenov style planes, preferring to chop the mortises, so I bet this is "one of those things that I decided not to do so I dismissed it and forgot." However, I haven't made any very thin bodied molding type planes yet, may turn out that splitting the body is the best way to do this, in which case the dowel alignment would come in very handy.

Pam

Re: humidity and glue lines

Ernie Miller

>I was just curious if the plane would react any differantly than a solid bodide one. I have a very dry shop not mush humidity movement for Kansas but I think that has alot to do with the fact that I have a humidifier/dehumidifer hooked up to the HVAC The shop stays at about 40-45% year round which is comfortable at 68� so I am happy. But I have heard stories of wood bodied planes having to be tuned every spring and fall because of the movement. I would think narrow bodied planes world react more than wide. am I wrong on that thought?

Re: humidity and glue lines

Dave Mount

>Thanks Pam and others for saying it looks nice. I was thinking of it much more as an experiment, so I just shrugged at the knot initially, now I kind of wish I had found a better piece of wood. At the same time, despite the looks, it really doesn't weaken the plane in any meaningful way.

Re: Todd's request to see the other side, I didn't take a pic, but the other side looks just like the one I showed, except there's no escapment and no knot (the other side of the knot is gone, exited where the wedge mortise is now. Just looks like a chunk of cherry with a wedge sticking out the top.

Re: pre-drilling and doweling, I can't honestly say how that came about -- it just seemed an obvious thing to do. That might be because I read about it somewhere and filed it away without remembering the original source. So even though I thought to do it, I certainly wouldn't claim it as an original.

Re: glue lines and humidity, I remember a huge thread about this a year or so ago. In this particular case, I think Pam is right about it being narrow and therefore unlikely to have a problem -- I mean, the whole thing is only 3/4" thick, and both sides are beveled down at the sole, so it's only a hair over 3/8" wide at the sole.

One thing about making the lamination from a resawn blank is that the curvature of the grain (whatever there is of it, this blank is pretty darn close to QS, particularly at the sole) is oriented pretty much (just less the saw kerf) however it would have been in a blank that was never split.

That leaves only whether the glue line would interfere with moisture transfer. I can't claim to know that, but would observe that the sole of this plane in particular is so narrow I can't imagine it would be affected much even if you laid the thing down on a concrete floor and really induced some moisture imbalance. It's also interesting to consider that even a plane without a glue line has assymetries in it with regard to moisture transfer -- for example, one side has no penetrations and the other has the bed and escapement, and moisture moves faster out of endgrain (which is exposed there) than perpendicular to the wood fibers. Also, many molding planes are wider at the sole than at the handhold. This doesn't prove that glue lines aren't an issue, but it reminds us that not all moisture movement in solid planes is necessarily balanced either.

Perhaps the most significant piece of evidence to me is Steve Knight's planes, about which I've never heard anything but praise, yet they have gluelines and the sides are (at least sometimes) not from the same block of wood as the interior. From that I conclude that moisture movement problems are, at a minimum, manageable.

Thanks for all the input. I've already got my next plane in mind, and that one will definitely be unconventional. Jim Reed knows what I'm talking about. . .

Best to all, have a great weekend,

Dave