Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
chisel recommendation
Bruce, a MN Galoot
>I need a whacking chisel. Not a mortise chisel, but one I can whack when the need arises. I don't like to beat on my Berg chisels, so what other brand would work well? I don't like to sharpen any more than anyone else, so it needs to hold an edge and be tough.
Recommendations very welcome and gratefully received.
Bruce, in Minnesota where the temp is 35F colder than yesterday. Uffda!
Re: chisel recommendation *LINK*
Jeffery
>Dynamite service from these folks!
Try these - they are the best!
Re: chisel recommendation
Mike in Markam
>I just got a flyer in the mail from European Hand Tools. The same set of 6 without a wood box is on special for $124.50, if you mention Coupon code 'Winter sale 2006'. I thought that was a good deal! I passed on the coupon details to Mrs Claus!
Re: chisel recommendation *LINK*
Miles
>Bahco 424P are very tough 'working' chisels, in my opinion able to take a good edge and hold it well. Not as pretty as old-style ones but well designed and very strong. Certainly fit the 'whackable' criterion. I have a 25mm one - the blades are thicker than really necessary (you could lever up paving slabs with them!) but that's normal for jobsite chisels it seems. I know it's not fashionable to praise most modern tool products, but these are not a bad choice unless you are after the finest edge possible.
You can get a set of 9 for about �50. Make sure it's the 424P, as these are not polished and so have flatter backs.
Japanese bench chisels fit the bill.
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)
>
Any suggestions?
Bruce, a MN Galoot
>
Best beaters...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA
>Stanley 40's or 50's Everlastings. They didn't call them that for 'nuthin back then. They take an edge fast and hold it well. Yea you can beat on them too...
Yeah, but the box is nice. :)
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>
Re: Best beaters...
David Charlesworth
>Hard to beat L-N ;-)#
For site work I rather like the Japanese HSS chisels which are capable of chopping thro nails. Bruce Luckhurst says they will carve marble.
What they won't do is take a fine sharp edge for cabinetmaking.
David Charlesworth
Re: Any suggestions? *LINK*
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)
>I hear that the Grizzly Japanese chisels are very good value for money. They have been a good starter set for many. There are better available, but these are about the least expensive on the market. Link below. I use Matsumura (at two to three times the price of the Grizzlys) for chopping and Berg for paring.
Regards from Perth
Re: Any suggestions?
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>Derek, those Grizzly chisels don't have a good rep here; but this is NOT from personal experience. Your Matsumura would be a much better choice. Just buy fewer.
Pam
Re: chisel recommendation
Ernie Miller
>how about some old stanley 60's? they are cheap and do hold an edge pretty well. What size are you looking fore? I may have some extras
Ditto
jim reed @ tallahassee
>the Stanley #60 chisels are my favorites. They will take a pounding.
Re: Best beaters...
thomd
>Masterpiece tools sold some HSS that took and held an edge really well. I haven't tried the Dicks ones though.
I'm not sure there is all that much to gain by abusing chisels, but for that kind of thing I usually use some cast steel chisels picked up for a dollar or two at tool shows. I've got some outstanding tools that way, and they tend to be easy to sharpen, but since they only cost a dollar or two I don't worry about abusing them. For instance if I can wack off a lump of fiberglass rather than sand it, that's where I turn.
Re: Any suggestions?
Nick Tuzzolino
>I have a set of the Grizzly Japanese chisels and IMHO they do not hold an edge. They are super sharp for about two cuts, and that's about it. I am not a novice to sharpening. I get more mileage out of my basic Marples. My chisels of choice now are Two Cherries.
What I'm looking for...
Bruce, a MN Galoot
>is not necessarily a beater -- an old 63 dodge dart car kinda chisel. I want a chisel that is sturdy, takes and keeps a good edge and will stand up to being whacked by a mallet. Now that I've had a chance to take a look at people's suggestions, I'm thinking more along the lines of a firmer, I guess, Japanese, Hirsch, maybe an Everlasting Stanley. It also needs to keep an edge better than my dad's old yellow-handled Stanley butt chisel, which would take a beating, for sure, but the edge wouldn't.
If Todd thinks he lives in old tool heck, he should try Minnesota, home of no old tools. Everything is just as close as my local Ebay, but I just want to know what to look for.
Thanks for your help.
Bruce, in suddenly cold MN.
Matsumura chisels
Todd from San Jose
>I'll second the vote for Matsumuras, available from Japan Woodworker. Wonderful chisels, I've chopped hundreds of dovetails in hardwoods, and continue to be impressed with their ability to hold an edge. They blow away my Marples, which are now relegated for rough work. That said, I've only had experience with the two brands. They're reasonably priced for Japanese chisels.
Re: What I'm looking for...
Miles
>Bruce, I have also tried a Two Cherries 32mm that holds up pretty well, but is not as robust as the Bahco, and the ergonomics are worse.
To prompt some debate, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that some of the stock answers coming in are from people who have probably never tried using some of the better 'industrial' brands and discount them immediately. That's not to say their suggestions are bad, just that they don't ever consider some quite reasonable options.
DC is certainly to be believed that the super-tough HSS doesn't take quite the edge of some others, but you'd have to be pretty fussy not to accept the edge you CAN get on it quite easily (yes, I have one of these too, also for trying-out, and I'm not even an expert sharpener). Unless your needs are overwhelmingly for super-sharp above all else, then I would encourage you to try either 2C or (better) Bahco. OK - if you buy a trial 424P and decide it's genuinely crap, I'll pay for it and you get to keep it or donate it to someone for testing (Steve E?). Fair enough? Might not manage a complete set, mind you :-) No association, just based on own experience.
Miles
Re: What I'm looking for...
Bruce, a MN Galoot
>Thanks for the offer, Miles. I have a friend who has a whole set of the Bahco's, and I traced the company history for him. I've heard that they're not quite what the EA Bergs were, but I couldn't believe they fell quite THAT far from the days of old. I don't need a whole set, just the three middle ones - 3/8, 1/2, 5/8.
Bruce, who wishes Bergs were still being made.
Re: What I'm looking for...
Miles
>I think that the point really is that if a modern manufacturer WANTS to make a good tool, they have MORE possibilities than in the past, and we should NOT discourage them from trying by only ever negatively saying 'they don't make em like they used to' They don't, and in some cases it's BETTER! (most of the time it's not, OK, but we are trying to be positive here).
Better steel is available, and certainly a wider spectrum of properties / tradeoffs are known about. Injection moulding - why not, if they use it to make a better handle from the users point of view (i.e. he can safely whack it with a mallet...) It isn't mandatory, it's just another choice.
I wanted to encourage you to try a 'new one' in case it turned out to be a good 'un, which you would tell people about, and then Bahco would see a better market for a tool that clearly is aimed at being better than the average.... even if that keeps a few more good tools coming onto the market from mainstream makers, it's good for all of us, even if we would each love to have Pam's sets of Matsumuras and to be able to appreciate their real advantages (and 'feel' the value of a hand-crafted item with such a heritage). I just wouldn't want to use one of those to chop lumps off an old floor joist (which the tough Bahco is ideal for!).
FWIW I have heaps of old chisels (some of which I am very fond of), plus a variety of newer ones, because I'm in the 'finding out' stage and want to learn by trying. I have read so many long threads about stones, brands of tool, etc, and many times it's just the same old responses going round and round. (not on WC of course!) so I learn little or nothing new. There is a lot of guff written about the laminated tools, as well as good stuff, and people are not as discriminating or critical as they could be about it. That's why I think Bill Tindall and Phil Smith and Steve Elliot's experimental approach to sharpening development is SO valuable - it cuts through the BS, so to speak!
Anyway, rant over, and the offer still stands. No offence meant to anyone, BTW!
Miles
A correction
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I don't have but two sets of chisels: 1) 6 Two Cherries set of basic with box, because it was a great deal from Dieter when the dollar used to be worth more than the Euro and 2) a 12 piece set of Woodcraft's Japanese chisels, perhaps Iyori, which was a big mistake, and I'll probably sell these real soon now (turns out that once I had all the speciality chisels I needed, I no longer needed all these bench chisels, especially given the Two Cherries). Also, it's Dave Burnard who has Matsumuras and likes them a lot. I've got mostly Tasai, Funahiro, and Fujihiro (Imai), plus piles of old western laminated chisels like Witherby, Swan, Addis, Buck (various), Dastra, and the like. I only seconded Derek's Matsumura mention because of Dave and Derek, and I didn't feel like going into all the other brands for a beater wannabe. :)
Sorry for any confusion.
Pam
Re: What I'm looking for...
dave caudill
>This is a pretty coomon question and I'll give my stock answer that I have done so many times before. I have many sets of chisels including a couple sets of Stanley Everlasting(I like the black composite handles with the orange logo the best). A set of LN chisels(hard to beat), no pun intended. Sets of Swan, Witherby, and Peck Stowe and Wilcox, a set I put together of Japanese chisels form Japan Woodworker( which feel great in the hand and have a nice balance) and many other various chisels. I sold the Marples a while back. Witherby is my favorite of the old manufacturers, and its only really by accident having found some in Maine while back taking a woodworking class. However the P.S.& W's are great as are the Swans and L.& I. J White, etc. I too would be happy to send an old Witherby to you to try as I have a few extras lying around. It would be flat sharp and ready to go. You can find them on e-bay on any given day and as far as quality goes they take and hold an edge as well as anything you will find. That being said while edge and durability are important how they feel is very important as well so try a few if you can and see what feels good to you. I personally don't think many of these new manufacturers stack up compared to the old other than the LN and some of the Japanese chisel makers. But try them out yourself and see what you think.
Let me know if you want to take something for a test drive.
Dave
Hmmm...
Scott Burr in cold Ben Lomond CA
>Best beaters, LN's...cute!
I'm curious of witch HSS Japanese chisels your talking about here. I could use a chisel that can take on a nail and win. My Stanley everlasting lost that battle to the nail...:^(
Any additional info David?
Re: A correction
Miles
>Sorry Pam, wasn't targeting you in particular, just that I know you are one of the regular contributors who I know has commented at length and from experience on the various Japanese makers, and that people would know what I meant by saying (in effect) 'nice sets of craftsman-made tools chosen by someone who has been able to home in on the better ones'
It does seem a shame that even a quite decent example like these 424s doesn't get considered, when if tested I think they would out-cut or out-last quite a few of the old ones. Balance and feel is personal, no rules there, but it would be good to extend the range of 'new and good' to more than only LN and a few specialist makers who largely use traditional materials. Is it really the case that NO CrV alloy chisels ever turn out to be any good... I am pretty sure that Bill T's CPM3V examples would be competitive with anything out there, based on the properties of the material that are now well established.
Maybe someone should get a 'nicely balanced' design made up in something like this, so an 'in-hand' comparison could be made?
all good fun!!
Miles
Re: A correction
Dave Burnard
>Actually I don't own any Matsumura chisels, not that I have anything against them. I hear good things about them. My working chisels are almost all Fujihiro's, available from Hida or Misugi Design. They're comparable in price to the Matsumuras and similarly hand forged.
The Grizzly "Japanese" chisels shouldn't be considered in the same discussion. They are completely machine made - machine laminated bodies, stamped out in a die with the neck/tang forge welded onto the body. Laminated indeed, but not pretty, and not measuring up to what we think of when we say "Japanese chisels". They are probably the Japanese equivalent of our blue handled wonders.