Australian Plane Irons? *LINK*

They're supposed to be excellent

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Search for "Steve Elliott", he's done thorough research on sharpness and edge durability.

Keep in mind that you will need diamond honing in order to extract the blade's full potential.

DC

Academy Saws M2 Plane Blades *LINK*

Steve Elliott

>I've used several of these high speed steel blades and they have the best edge-holding properties of any commercially available blade on the market.

Brent Beach has tested them and posted the results at the link below.

Paul Williams is very pleasant to deal with. He made a custom blade for my Ulmia smoother and now has a line of blades for infill planes.

One thing to keep in mind about M2 blades is that they are more difficult to grind. My Tormek is just too slow when grinding a 3/16" thick infill blade of M2. For a thinner Bailey-style blade grinding would be less of a problem. I strongly recommend fine diamond paste for the final honing. It produces a VERY sharp edge that holds up for a long time.

The Academy Saws blades were included in a test of plane blades published in the Australian Wood Review several years ago and they won hands down, especially when it came to planing difficult Australian timbers.


Brent Beach's Test

Re: They're supposed to be excellent

stephen wiseman

>Dear Denis,

Thank you. David Charlesworth has an excellent article on sharpening his Holtley S53 iron using DMT diamond "stones" and paste (in his third new book; "A Guide To Hand Tools & Methods"). I'm thinking this process would be applicable? I'll have to look back at the recent post to see if the steel is similar as far as hardness goes.

Just not sure I'm ready to dive into a new setup yet as I've just become comfortable with preparing A2 with three bevels per DC on waterstones! Although after reading the praises of Steve Elliot (just posted - Thanks Steve!)and test from Brent it will be hard not to go there!

Wonder if L-N and others will be using these harder materials in the near future?

Best,

Stephen

Re: Academy Saws M2 Plane Blades

stephen wiseman

>Thanks Steve for the great info! Is this the near future of all tool steel?

Best,

Stephen

Re: They're supposed to be excellent

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Wonder if L-N and others will be using these harder materials in the near future?

Actually Stephen, there is a move to go the other way! Veritas (LV) have recently brought out a HCS range of blades. Some do prefer using a blade that is easier to hone, even if that means that one has to do so more frequently. One of the things that puys some off A2 and harder steels is that there is more effort involved. This is also one of the reasons for the emphasis/debates on finding alternate - quicker - methods to hone an edge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I use them

Andrew F in Australia

>Hi Steven,

I use these blades in most planes - they work fine.

Grinding them back's a bit of a pain - they take a while.

Honing them's easy on a bit of 2000# wet & dry stuck to a bit of MDF. Two -three strokes on a freshly ground edge and they're right to go.

Cheers,

Andrew

clarification

bill tindall, E. TN

>By "wet or dry" I suspect you are referring to an abrasive made from silicon carbide. Silicon carbide will cut these tool steels, where as aluminium oxide, for practical purposes, will not. The only short coming with silicon carbide is that it is a brittle abrasive and crushes easily in use. On the other hand it is cheap and readily available.

About $1- per year, Bill

Andrew F in Australia

>Hi Bill,

Wet and dry is the silicon carbide based system that panel beaters (US Auto Shops) use to sand car finish and metal components. The 2000# is the really fine one.

A 2" wide strip lasts me a couple of months.

I throw it out when it glazes over.

Cheers,

Andrew

I use this blade

David Charlesworth

>And it is very good indeed.

I particularly like the marks from the pecking hammer which demonstrate the care that has gone into the "flattening" or to be more precise 'beneficial shaping' of the blades.

Paul is a master.

David Charlesworth

Re: I use this blade

Andrew F in Australia

>HI David,

I'll confirm your comments, as I have made the comment many times here about this brand of blade.

The timber I use blunts a Stanley blade in approximately 15 lineal feet of planing. I go about two hours or so between sharpenings on the M2 blade. For me, it was a practical necessity as opposed to a luxury.

How long do you get out of the plane blade on something like Oak, or similar?

Cheers,

Andrew

Please explain theory & practice of "pecking"

woodburnbob

>

At this price, I'll try one in a woodie:

Chuck Nickerson

>my Gordon 60 deg smoother. I have enough trouble setting the blade depth in a woodie, that going 5x longer between sharpenings would be a big plus.

Re: I use this blade

Paul Erickson

>How thick are these blades?

cheers, Paul

Re: At this price, I'll try one in a woodie:

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Do you use the hardwood block method of blade setting?

Pam

Blade Thickness

Steve Elliott

>My 2" Bailey-style Academy Saws blade is almost exactly .100" thick after some lapping to get the back nice and flat. That's just over 3/32".

Re: At this price, I'll try one in a woodie:

bill tindall, E. TN

>I think you will more likely see 2X for US woods.

Explain please....

bill tindall, E. TN

>

Re: Explain please.... *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Terry ships a strip of hardwood with every plane. You sit the plane, blade edge down, on top of the wood and tap the blade. That's a great starting point, often exactly right. You may want to check out Terry's instructions below.

Pam


Terry's instructions

A little camber helps, too

Wiley Horne

>I agree with Pam's assessment--you can get to where it comes out right the first time, most times. Also, you can use any flat piece of wood on your bench, edge up.

One thing I have noticed is that a bit of camber helps with the initial setting of woody bench planes, and leads to a very high rate of 'good on the first try'. Not advisable on a shoulder plane, of course. If there is a bit of camber, you can rock the blade on the hardwood edge, and by feel know just when it is 'nose on' and straight up to the work; then just slide the wedge in finger tight while you're holding the blade in place with the other hand. The bit of camber also makes the setup not quite so sensitive to lateral adjust, which adds to the 'good on first try' rate.

Some camber is good for many reasons on a bench plane, and this is one of 'em IME.

Wiley

Were are at 2X and looking for 10X *LINK*

Phil Smith

>Based on the work by Brent Beach and Steve looks like we have a solid 2X in edge retention over A2 and O1 plane iron blades with M2 and CPM 3V plane irons. Both Brent and Steve have shown that these blades can be sharpened to fine edge with the proper sharpening system. Diamond based sharpening systems excel at honing these more wear resistant steels.

Here is link to Brent's site on edge retention:

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/bladetest.html#chrono

Here is the link to Steve Elliot's site on sharpening and edged retention:

http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_testing/html/edge_retention.html

Over the last couple of years it has been shown that these wear resistant tool steels (CPM 3V and M2) can be sharpened to a fine edge and that they give a good 2X in edge life time over conventional A2 and O1 steels.

Now comes the question of just how much performance, in terms of improved edge wear resistance we can get if we match the steel with the intended use. In Bill Tindall and my case we started with CPM 3V to get very good toughness and hardness combination for mortise chisels. As it turns out it makes a pretty good plane irons. Based on Steve and Brent's data M2 makes a plane iron with very similar performance. If you look at the properties of CPM 3V and M2 compared to A2 at the link below you will notice that the 3V has much better toughness than A2 and about 2X the wear resistance in a standard wear test for metal uses. M2 has slightly less toughness than A2 and about 2X the wear resistance as A2. These results are consistent with the results of Steve and Brent.

This begs the question. If we maximize the steel properties with application, can we see a even bigger bump in edge retention. In particular CPM M4 has 5 to 10X the wear resistance of A2 in the wear test and slightly better toughness than A2. If the previous trends in metal use holds up in plane irons, we can envision a plane iron with 5 to 10 times the edge life of A2 or O1. THIS IS ENOUGH TO BE INTERESTING.

Hence the need for an efficient screening test for edge life and the request for a metalurglist. On the power tool side of the world almost no one uses carbon steel saw blades, planer blades, or router bits. They have all moved to carbide edges for saw blades and router bits, and M2 or better tool steel for planer blades. Is there any reason we should not expect a similar performance increase in edge life for premium priced hand tool?


A2 Steel Properties

Re: Please explain theory & practice of "pecking"

Andrew F in Australia

>The pecking hammer is used to slightly stretch the upper surface of the blade, so that the blade cups upwards.

It allows the saw doctor to flatten a saw plate, or in this case, a plane blade. The only problem is that they can only work on one side on a plane blade, so it's a job for an expert.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: Ray Isles D2?

paul womack

>Anybody tried the new Ray Isles blades, which (IIRC) are D2 (whatvere that is!)? I saw them in Classic Hand tools in Needham Market.

BugBear

Re: source  *LINK*

paul womack

>


http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-RID2IRON.XX

What it is *LINK*

Phil Smith

>Here is link to CPM's site which gives composition and properties of D2 along with A2, M2, CPM 3V and a couple of other steels. Based on their data looks like wear properties should be between A2 and M2.


D2 Composition and Properties