If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Don't hold your breath... *LINK*

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>Probably never happen.


Get a cup to drool in...

HOLY CATS ! . . .

Steve Mackay


>THAT was the BEST five minutes of my WHOLE day ! Toned down the ol' ego too !

Glad to see it humbled you too...;^)

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

Hey Boss...

Steve Kubien


>Have you got a picture handy of the axe/machette display from the new store? I suspect some folks here would really enjoy it.

Steve Kubien

- who drools pathetically every time he walks past.

Re: If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Michael Brady


>Maybe it's just me, but I find large hordes of collectibles to be gross. Now if something is done with collections for the public good, such as museum donations, that is a different matter. How are you folks who seek to own a few antiquities going to be able to outbid those to whom cost is not an object?

Re: If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>It's just the way capitalism works, Michael, time to get over it or start working to change the system. The Lees do good things, make lots of money, collect piles of tools I don't even want and wouldn't have a place to store if I had them. It's not clear that museums are generally all that good for woodworking tool preservation.

Pam

Re: If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Wiley Horne


>" How are you folks who seek to own a few antiquities going to be able to outbid those to whom cost is not an object?"

___________

Be smart. Don't fish where everybody else is fishing. And don't fish for $100,000 fancy plough planes. I personally think that Revolutionary War era and Federal Period moulding planes, even ones in excellent condition, are relatively cheap (as collectibles run). Coupla three hundred dollars, and the provenance is stamped on the end of the plane. And we're talking about makers who fought in the Revolutionary War. Not to speak of the British makers of the same era. To me, this is blue chip stuff, which has not been bidden out of sight yet.

Now me, I immediately start taking some value out of the article by sharpening the blade and using the plane. But if you want to collect a few antiquities, there are categories which just aren't hot right now, and who knows why. It does take some reading and observing to figure out what's collectible versus what's just an old tool. Old saws in excellent condition with provenance stamped on them don't go for that much, either. A few hundred dollars, not thousands.

I'm very happy about Mr. Lee's museum, and always enjoy the Lee Valley catalog covers. It's good that our tool heritage is being preserved.

Wiley

Re: landfill?

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>Would you prefer that the large hordes of collectables be used as land fill, or what? I find it very difficult to judge other people, because I know so little about them. I have no idea where they got their money, or how they spend it. I can make some general assumptions, but there is a good chance these general assumptions will be way off base. For instance, I can assume that someone might be making a profit from a business and want to invest the money in things they like rather than things they will never see, but this is just a guess with no real facts to back it up.

Rob Lee's collection is over the top

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>but he shares it pretty freely, as I understand it, and it serves as a respository of historical ideas from which the Lee Valley/Veritas tools gain inspiration.

Museums don't always respect tools, often showing them mislabeled and put together wrong. When we travel, LOML is always having to hold me back from lecturing the museum staff. Almost every little town's museum has a Stanley 45, and, for some reason, only about 5% of the people who put them in the display cases know how the fence is supposed to be oriented - they're usually on backwards.

Hey, Ms. Pam . . .

Steve Mackay


>is there REALLY a "China Grove" "down around San Antone" ?

Re: If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Rob Lee


>Hi Micheal -

Anyone who collects tools will tell you that you don't really own them... you just get to be their custodian for awhile...

We have just finished cataloguing the majority of our collection, and fully intend to put it into circulation (through our stores) until we have the resources to open a museum (a much larger undertaking than it sounds).

While we we have a collection with a lot of scope, we're working on depth, and quality. It's our intent to put together displays that tell a story - be it the evolution of a tool, the history of a manufacturer, or the story of a particular trade.

As far as expenditure goes - it's individuals that cough up the really big bucks on collectibles.... they're typically much more focussed in a very narrow area than we are.

Rob

Re: Rob Lee's collection is over the top

Chris Scholz


>The museums curators I talked to were very appreciative of the little information I could contribute. I suggest that if you see something mislabeled/misrepresented, try to talk to the curator; you might be surprised how receptive curators tend to be. IMHO, no single curator will ever be as good as our collective knowledge.

"Public good"

Rich Glisson (Durham, NC)


>Interesting that you used the phrase "for the public good". As Bill H mentioned above, it is obvious that LV/Veritas mines their tool collection for ideas when brainstorming new products and we, "the public", benefit greatly. They are brilliant at identifying the good design features, analyzing the shortcomings of the mediocre designs, and coming up with products that improve on what had been accepted for the past 100 years just because that was all Stanley made. I don't see how this could be done without an extensive reference collection. IMHO we owe them a debt of gratitude.

I'll quote you to LOML

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>next time I feel the impulse and she's holding me back.

One of the finer museums (musea?)

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>of my limited experience was owned by a couple of brothers in southern Minnesota. In a metal-sided farm building, the kind of thing you'd find cows and/or hay in, they'd assembled a truly awe-inspiring collection of tools, biscuit tins, cars, etc. The building had clearly been ordered out of a farm catalogue, as it was laid out in bays of about the right size to put a horse. Each bay was dedicated to a category of tool. The one that sticks in my mind was the hammer bay - wired up on the wall were more hammer types than I knew existed. No explanation - just hammers. It followed on a city museum of the California cuisine type - just a few things with many, many words about what each meant. The brothers' museum gave me a much deeper sense of the use of technology in American history, because I realized how incredibly sophisticated our ancestors were in understanding and refining tools, back when almost everything on the farm, other than the water pump on the windmill, was powered by biology.

Re: Rob Lee's collection is over the top

Greg Betit, Vergennes, VT.


>I know what you mean. Vermont's Chimney Point Historic Site has a display of archeological finds that has an 18th or 19th century chisel chisel labeled "ice chipper". I had to tell someone!

greg

Re: "Public good"

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT.


>Good point. Plus they get to write off everything they spend on their coll^H^H^H^H research acquisitions! If that isn't a win-win situation, I'm a grandson of a wetback Canuck!

greg

Greg?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>What's a Wetback Canuck?

We the customers

Frank D. in Montreal


>While I do agree with much of what was said in defense of collections as well as the Lees, I think it's a mistake to confuse public with customer. The public doesn't benefit from new tool designs; Lee Valley's customers (one of which I am) do, and so, in turn, does Lee Valley. Perfectly normal or acceptable to me but cunfusing customers with the public is liek confusing taxpayers with citizens.

Re: Hey, Ms. Pam . . .

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>Beats me, haven't been in San Antonio for about 30 years.

Pam

Re: Greg?

Greg B�tit Crown Point NY


>An illegal alien from Quebec? (As in, they swam across lake Memphremagog instead of the Rio Grande... OK, it's a reach.)

greg -whose grandparents all had green cards, for sure.

Re: If The Lees ever feel the need . . .

Nathan Pettigrew


>Hey Rob,

How about an online museum? Some nice rotating images of the item, etc...

That would be neat.

Thanks,

Nathan

Re: "Public good"

Rob Lee


>Hi Greg -

Actually - that's a common misconception... anything that retains resale value is an asset - and has has no impact on taxes. In fact, unlike production machinery, we can't depreciate the antiques. Think of them as retained earnings in physical form. They're just the same as cash in the bank.

With respect to the rest of the discussion elsewhere in this thread (and not part of my reply to Greg!) - I find it sort of amusing/interesting that so many people have opinions on how or what individuals do with their income.... and it a subject that's come up in other discussions. What we do in terms of collecting tools is a very/very small part of the operation. In fact, our tool collection expenditure is only a fraction of the the amount we donate to charity each year. It pales in comparison to what we spend on other assets for the corporation. I can certainly understand that relative to an individual, the amounts are large.... but so are ALL of the amounts we deal with. There aren't many people reading this that have postage bills that run 7 figures, or that pay 28K per month in internet/data connectivity fees (that's with no equipment, and has nothing to do with phones). Despite the size of the amounts we deal with corporately - most people in business have exactly the same value systems and perception of value that the general population does. We don't automatically fly first class (I have never purchased even a "Business class" seat). I have yet to meet anyone with an "expense account" the way the general public perceives it.

When it comes to discussion of the "public good" of a corporation - it's no different than that of a good citizen... work hard, contribute to the community, pay your taxes, and try to provide for the future. There's no difference between decent individuals and decent corporations other than scale.

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Rob Lee's collection is over the top

Ernie Miller


>One of my best purchases was from a small mesume who had a large chest of tools donated to them they held on to it for a year and promptly disposed of it for quick easy cash. THe only way I would domate any thing to a mesume is to give it to them on loan for display or stydy with it returning to me or my family when they are done with it.