Celebrity plane *LINK*

and not just contributions of style

bill tindall


>I set about to build a curved front cabinet like I saw in one of the books. I soon ran into engineering problems that fortunately a JK student helped me through (the books are not very detailed in executing some designs). I came away from the completed cabinet with an appreciation for how skilled Krenov was in engineering his pieces as well as the cleverness in executing the design.

I doubt that you can fully appreciate his genius until you either build or study in detail the construction of his pieces. There is a wealth of design detail, engineering and execution that can pass unnoticed from a picture. What is more clever or functional than a Krenov rub latch, or a plane to be used, for that matter. How many craftsmen in the last 100 years have developed as many useful techniques or trained as many students? I wish someone would write a book describing in useful detail the construction techniques he developed.

This cabient will likely be the only thing I build in the Krenov style, but the techniques I learned will be used in other cabinetry. Most of the philosophy never stuck, but that didn't detract from the design and engineering I found helpful. Well, maybe it distracted a little.

Re: Bunch of Hype

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>I have never personally met James Krenov, I just feel like I have gotten to know him by reading and re-reading his books. I think perhaps the best characteristic he has is knowing that the average person will never understand what James Krenov is about, and going ahead with the path he has chosen anyway. So in a way I am not surprised at the reaction this plane has gotten, but I am saddened that the crowd on this forum has the same reaction as the average public. But it is very typical to judge the beauty of a piece or a person by outward appearance, without ever attempting to look beyond the outer skin. I just looked closely at the pictures of the planes in his first book, and they are pretty much the same style and workmanship as you see in the one that just sold. I think it would be fairly easy to take them on a belt sander and polish them up and then spray several coats of polyurethane on them.

Re: Bunch of Hype

matt in golden


>Hey folks,

I usually just lurk here... and I hesitate to make a post on what is looking to be a touchy subject, but... "The fine art of cabinet making" is to me a breath of fresh air in a very conservative analytical world of woodworking books. Krenov's words are simple and full of passion and that acts as an inspiration to me. I find most of the work that is posted by folks does not appeal to my aesthetic, as krenov's might not appeal to all; however, I find the skill, care, and enthusiasm that people give into their work inspirational.

Sure, it doesn't make sense to me that anyone could afford all that money on a collectable... but, I'm glad that it is for a handcrafted item of cultural significance to a large craft community - rather than some mass produced piece of cast iron from 100 years ago... and I'm glad a woodworker and his family are profitting from it, rather than some guy that got lucky at a garage sale (I say this as a dedicated rust hunter...).

all the best,

Matt

Re: Celebrity plane

Roy Hennagir


>I don�t really understand the pedestal some people place other people on. I live in a town that has spent millions trying to keep some buildings that Frank Lloyd Wright designed, from falling down, they were horrible designs that have failed the test of time like most of what he built. �I guess you can�t leave art out in the rain� as he supposedly once said. My house was built in 1890 by some un named carpenter with what ever tools he could afford. No fame, no fan fare, and the house is still sound. We can�t say that for Franks handy work. Frank, well he wanted that fame and that pedestal. Did Mr Krenov? I don�t know and who really does. Who cares. I personally have not been afflicted by the worship bug that some people have. We will say for the sake of argument that the plane in question was his plane, what is the point of that crude plane with its shoddy body and cheap orange iron? Tools are tools. It�s how you use them that counts. Blades that cost 10 times what the plane is worth on the used market do not make that tool make better furniture. Could it be that you can make something beautiful without a $300.00 plane? Could that be the point of the shoddy blade, hunk of wood, looking poor plane? I have yet to find anything made by my tools in the wee hours of the night when the shop was devoid of human life.

Is it the tool or the person behind the tool?

Re: Celebrity plane

Phil Joines Krum, Tx.


>I have not (yet) read any of Mr. Krenov's books or seen any of his furnature. Haven't met him either. The plane looks to me like one that was made to be used by someone who was interested in making furnature. As long as the plane did it's job the looks didn't matter. It's a tool.

Re: Celebrity plane

James Watriss


>The man wrote books, taught students, helmed a fairly prestigious program for a while, and has inspired many other cabinetmakers. I also see a lot of shaker reproductions, Greene and Greene, Stickley...

It's true, there are way too many Krenov cabinets out there. But people get dogmatic about whatever answers and inspirations they find in life, wherever they find them. [edited by Moderator]

I think one of the joys of Krenov is that he was the one to walk away from Dogma, and taught and wrote along those lines. Does he deserve to be put on a pedestal for being a real-life free-thinker? Eh, maybe, maybe not.

Does that mean that his plane is worth as much as a Holtey? I don't know.

People pay big money for objects of meditation. Things that represent ideas and ideals and quandaries that they just can't quite wrap their minds around completely, but they still try to understand. It's perhaps one of the definitions of real art. It makes you think.

[edited by Moderator]

Speaking as an observer, as a retail clerk in a certain well-known woodworking retail chain, I think there seems to be a serious, misguided belief out there. There's a belief that you can be a God with enough anodized, extruded aluminum, phenolic bits and pieces, brightly colored blades and bits, high-cost wonder metals, and low-cost wonder-widgets. People seem to think that all this crap will make them woodworking heros. Multicolored dovetails are here in a huge way, and they're now perceived to be a major statement of... well, I'm not sure what exactly. Maybe just a statement that you can afford a Leigh jig and a nice router. I thought dovetails were just a way to join wood.

People don't seem to get it anymore. Money isn't the same thing as skill. Cookie cutter machine gizmo joinery cut into $1000 worth of exotic imported figured wood isn't the same thing as inspiration. That plane helps to tug at some of those illusions.

To me, the idea that a humble, ugly block of wood, with an old blade in it, can work more wonders than $2000 worth of calamitous gadgets, is not a little inspiring. That's art. And if I could afford it, I'd buy one myself.

Instead, I'll have to settle on making one.

Re: Wandering OT - furniture criticism, not the pl

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco


>I've been to that show, and generally respect the level of craft shown by the participants. There are some really fine builders there.

Part of the 'style' thing may be that Krenov's style sells pretty well, and the C of R grads know how to build that way, if they want to. One friend of mine, a much better woodworker than I, built a stunning cabinet in Krenov's honor, with his image in marquetry. Not knowing if the dear old fellow would like it...

Like you, I enjoy the level of craft, but none of that would last more than a couple of months at my house. The grandkids would destroy it in a hurry. Red oak mission survives. ;-)

Re: Wandering OT - furniture criticism, not the pl

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>Can't dispute the level of craft - and maybe you're right, Glenn, they know what people will buy - but I continue sad that there weren't more influences or more wandering from the one influence.

Well said Andy!

Bob Hackett


>The final selling price is just a reflection of the high esteem that JK holds in the WWing community,and rightly so.

MB

Re: some facts and some more opinions...

Mark Nowicki


>"JK has not decided whether he will sell more planes, but if he does, I have been told that the prices will be much lower than the eBay high bid, based on the costs to him in materials and time."

How is he going to do that, and why? Now that the cat is out of the proverbial bag he should enjoy the ride, and rake in the bucks. If Mr. Krenov insists on selling them for much less than the high bid I know Todd will take at least 20. I might even buy a few myself.

Mark Nowicki

Re: thanks for posting

Mark Nowicki


>"so I can relate to its lack of refinement."

Thank you, Bill, for providing me with another excuse for not finishing what I start.

Regards

Mark Nowicki

Re: Celebrity plane

Clinton


>His website says:

"Although JK's health is good he is having trouble with his eyes and will not be able to continue making his cabinets.

He is currently enjoying the process of building, by creating hand-planes. He is using the methods he has always employed although without the help of clear vision he is working by feel and his intuitive knowledge. "

I think that any 86 year old with failing vision that is still working, albiet within his age related limitatons, is to be admired... or at the least left alone to enjoy what they do.

I hope I can still do what I enjoy when I am 86.

Was the plane worth the price it sold for? That is determined by the purchaser, and obviously the purchaser thought @ $1200 sounded about right.

Good luck to the maker and the buyer, for doing what they feel like doing. I dare say that function had little to do with the buyers decision.

Re: Celebrity plane

Rusty Miller


>I got to see one of Mr Kernov's pieces in Ohio. It was bought by one of his former students. The workmanship was fantastic. I have all his books and yes there are a lot of his pieces that I'm not crazy about, but the workmanship and influence he has had on people will last forever. His books have influenced thousands of woodworkers.

I know if I could afford it, I would buy one of his pieces or tools in a heartbeat.

Rusty-Tye, TX

Re: some facts and some more opinions... *LINK*

VTAndy4


>He was embarrassed about the bidding reaching such a high amount -- and if you doubt this, then do some research and learn what he sold his cabinets for, and read some of his writing, rather than presuming to know something about him and his motivations. We are often incorrect when we project our own limitations onto others rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt when they behave differently than we would, as I feel that some people here are doing here to JK. There is some production furniture (by which I mean, made by more than one set of hands, mostly using machines) that sells for more than what JK's cabinets sold for (when sold by him).

At the very least, read this interview (link below) and you might gain some insight into Jim's view of money in relation to his work.

-Andy


http://www.aaa.si.edu/collections/oralhistories/transcripts/krenov04.htm

Re: thanks for posting

VTAndy4


>Uh... that plane IS finished. The cross-hatching is to provide a grip. Read Chris Schwarz's comments about a similar ("unfinished," in your opinion) plane in the August 2006 issue of Popular Woodworking.

-Andy

now I understand the thing about Rorschach!

VTAndy4

I liked the interview,

woodburnbob


>but I only got through the first half before my eyes started blurring because of my monitor. I particularly admired Mr. Krenov's early treatment of the interviewer. There's a lot of fine and pithy sentiment in the transcript. And, elegant concision. Take this sentence as an example, wherein Mr. Krenov describes a person he once knew: "He stuttered and he was omnipotent."

Andy, clearly Mr. Krenov has had ample experience with the Philistines of the world. So I don't imagine he's all that troubled by what's transpiring here.

Philistine...

2. fig. Applied (humorously or otherwise) to persons regarded as �the enemy�, into whose hands one may fall, e.g. bailiffs, literary critics, etc.; formerly, also, to the debauched or drunken.

4. Hence: A person deficient in liberal culture and enlightenment, whose interests are chiefly bounded by material and commonplace things. But often applied contemptuously by connoisseurs of any particular art or department of learning to one who has no knowledge or appreciation of it; sometimes a mere term of dislike for those whom the speaker considers �bourgeois�. [From the OED]