Celebrity plane *LINK*

Re: Celebrity plane

Moses Yoder


>Boy, if I had the money I would have spent 10 or 20 times that much on it. I had no idea it would go that cheap. 20 years from now that thing is going to be worth a million bucks. James Krenov changed the world, at least the world of woodworking.

Re: Celebrity plane

Dave Thompson


>Interesting. I can see a price like this or higher could spawn a fake market. No problem if JK mails it himself.

Re: Celebrity plane

Jim Shaver Oakville, Ont.


>I Know,

It states his son in law was selling this one for him....I know this was one that some collectors were after, Hock or no Hock iron

I expect to see some more in time up for sale.

Take care,

Jim

Re: Krenov collection

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>In my late teen years I found "A Cabinetmaker's Notebook" in our local public library and it had quite an influence on my woodworking, although I did not have the knowledge to find out more about the real art of woodworking. Later on I bought "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", and it is well worn now. About 2 weeks ago I was in our local used book store and happened to see "A Cabinetmakers Notebook" there, but unfortunately the owner of the bookstroe really knows his books. This was in really good shape and hardback. Today I got paid, and now the book is setting on my desk ;)

I went to the county woodworker's association

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>annual show today - the county museum hosts it every year. I don't know if it was the jury's taste or the tendencies around here, but the show was littered with wall cabinets and some standing cabinets, and every doggoned cabinet looked like Krenov. I want to be fair: there was one Shaker dresser and a Harvey Ellis chair; and some other work that was creative and interesting. But 1/4 of the show or more was Krenovian. It's true that he introduced some important ideas and shapes, and the refinement of his work is unquestionable, but there are other ideas out there.

Bill, who has a lot of respect for the man, but thinks people get carried away sometimes.

Re: I went to the county woodworker's association

Bruce, a MN Galoot


>It's true that people get carried away sometimes. But how about just once, you get to be the guy people get carried away with.

Like Moses, Krenov had a great influence on my furniture and cabinet building. Not necessarily the style, but the passion.

Bruce

Re: Celebrity plane

Wayne Anderson


>Ok...call me a skeptic, but this work is not up to Krenov's. It looks like his style of plane, but from what I know about him and his work, having read three of his books, it just doesn't pass the "smell test". It is far too rough hewn. He will leave evidence of being handmade to be sure, but it is just plain rough...something I've never seen in any of his tools, from his trimming/marking knives to his planes. He far too meticulous. -Wayne

Re: Celebrity plane

Steve Wargo


>He had a link on his personal website to the Ebay auction page when the auction was in progress. Pretty sure it's the real deal.

Re: Celebrity plane

Paul Kierstead


>Initially I thought the same, but I think the scale is deceiving. This appears to be quite small; I suspect in real life it looks better.

Something's been bugging me since the beginning...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.


>What's the thing with the orange painted blade?

Not a Hock expert for sure, but to my knowledge Hock doesn't paint his blades, and I don't see why Krenov would do that either...

Am I missing something?

DC

Re: Something's been bugging me since the beginnin

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)


>Denis,

I agree that the blade looks dodgy and when I first saw the listing I didn't think it was a Ron Hock blade either.

The day before the auction ended the seller made a revision to the listing stating that he had made an error and that the blade was not a Hock.

Regards,

Ian S.

Re: Celebrity plane

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)


>The buyer has already left positive feedback for the seller in relation to the Krenov plane. According to the feedback the buyer was happy with the plane. He'd want to be for that kind of money.

Regards,

Ian S.

Opinions ... opinions ... and more opinions ...

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)


>It is possible to look at this plane from a number of levels.

First off, this plane is indeed made by Jim Krenov. Not only is there a notation to this effect on his website, but I know that the plane was sold on his behalf by his daughter and son-in-law.

This plane is, as noted by Wayne, a little more rough-and-ready than expected. JK is 86 (I believe) and has now stopped building furniture owing to failing eyesight. Even building these planes may be more difficult for him than one realizes. Beautiful it ain't, but I would it expect it to work exceptionally well.

For me, the true value of this plane lies in it being a record of the hand and mind that built it. In other words, the value is really intrinsic. Yes I know that it will command a Collector value - if a signature alone of a famous artist can do so, then this plane - regardless of condition, beauty or functionality - will do so as well. One day it (and others like it) will be worth more in the material sense.

For many woodworkers, myself included, it represents an emotional link to an inspirational teacher. Whether one likes his designs or not, it is hard not to be moved by the spirit and spirituality that flows in his writings. JK's message was to go with the flow, to be guided by the wood. Tools, thus, are but a means to an end, not the end, per se. They must work well and feel comfortable, not necesarily look great. This plane is a symbol of that message.

There is something very freeing about this plane. I do love playing with different tools, and there is a thrill in using and mastering them. However, something about this pasttime disturbs me - guilt at such materialism?. At other times I can forget the tool I am using and just enjoy a creative encounter with the wood. This is easier to do when the tool is not more beautiful already than is the piece being built ever could become!

JK is/was a man who would charge less for his pieces than his students. Here is his plane and it stands for me as a symbol of his anti-materialism attitude.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Plane Iron

Larry G


>He's always used standard irons from old planes.

If you have his book, The Fine Art of Cabinent Making (1977 ed), you'll see a photo on page 80 that shows how he modifies standard irons for use in his planes.

One of the collector/experts on this forum can tell you the make & model block planes (Record,Stanley, etc) that used an orange iron.

Plane Iron Addendum

Larry G


>Although two of his students, David Finck and Ron Hock (don't know if Ron was actually a student, but he lives close to the College and visits a lot), make and sell exceptional irons, I would be suspicious if the plane didn't use a modified standard iron.

Re: Celebrity plane

Mark Nowicki


>All I see is a chunk of wood with a cheap blade.

Mark Nowicki

This one ??  *LINK*

Mark Nowicki



Krenov book

Bunch of Hype

Todd Hughes


>I was never impressed with his furmiture and even less so with his planes....even when they didn't look like they were made by Hellen Keller while on a pogo stick using a meat cleaver like this thing does.Wasn't to impressed to hear that what looks like a used up .50 cent flea market old blade painted orange was worth a $100 and one of "JK Favorite" either.

... While promoted rather well I think if included with the plane was one of "JKs Favorite" pair of underware to be used as a plane storage bag it would probably have doubled the auction price to some particular rabid groupie.

This is a made to be collectable item that was made to sell by riding on the coat tails of the "celebrity" maker and I think really represents about the pinnacle of "selling out". Wasn't made very nice because it didn't have to be.....how well it was made isn't important but rather it is all about who made it [or who supposedly made it !]. I do have to admire the confidence that he had that he could still sell S**t in a bucket that he knew he didn't even have to remove the orange paint of the blade or do any finish work to the plane to have it still sell.

....I think since this one sold rather well we can expect to see a flood of simular planes being cranked out now....Kind of Sad , well just my opinon.....Todd

thanks for posting

bill tindall


>I would not have seen the plane otherwise and I was pleased to see it. I would expect this "chunk of wood and cheap iron" is as capable of creating beautiful furniture as any alternative possessed by plane collectors. As someone that dashes out versions of this plane for specific tasks (as an alternate to buying metal versions) I was particularly interested in its shaping.

When I am making a plane to use for a task in a furniture construction project I stop diddling with the plane as soon as it becomes functional, so I can relate to its lack of refinement.

some facts and some more opinions...

VTAndy4


>I agree with everything Derek said in his post and would like to add something.

I have corresponded with Jim Krenov's daughter, and she doesn't believe that there should be a sense of mystery and speculation about this matter. Because of that, I can share that he was apparently mortified that the plane brought such high bids on eBay -- it was not his intention to sell it above the cost of his materials and time. So everyone who is making judgements about the high closing bid --- this is simply a reflection of a market and not of the maker.

If you research the prices of his cabinets, you'll see that even at the peak of his fame, they sold at reasonable prices -- certainly not as high as JK could have sought if he was truly interested in exploiting his fame.

JK has not decided whether he will sell more planes, but if he does, I have been told that the prices will be much lower than the eBay high bid, based on the costs to him in materials and time.

In case anyone is interested in reading an account of the level of performance of these planes (I was, since I had never tried one), they were included in the recent Pop Woodworking high-end plane blowout event that Chris wrote up in the August 2006 issue, if I recall correctly. (Some of you might have to scrape the drool off of the pages to read it at this point!)

I think that JK's planes stand as a testament to simplicity, which might be why this auction caused people to voice such harsh opinions -- the high price and "aura" attached to the plane on eBay seemed in direct contrast to what a simple, shop-made tool stands for in the context of JK's work. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course; however, I still wish that the speculations wouldn't be so ungenerous to JK (and his personal motives) in their presumptions. I know that some of this internet forum speculation has gotten back to JK's family, so I wish that people woudn't write anything online that they wouldn't say to Jim Krenov directly. JK made a living from his work, which is a dream for many, but he did not make a fortune, so these planes -- which will be appreciated by those who will buy them and hope to gain insight into JK's work through using them -- might be his chance to continue working at this time.

Respectfully,

Andy

Re: Celebrity plane

woodburnbob


>Gee, looks like this turned a little into a Rorschach, wherein the responses about saints or devils tells us solely about the speaker's sensiblities.

I sure meant no disrespect for Mr. Krenov, who's clearly lived an honorable life. If I could retract any words I used, they would be "but still". With a little more thought on my part, I can see now that this plane is a legitimate and bona fide historical object, collectable or museum piece. Obviously, the "market" will put a value on it at the moment of exchange, no matter what the maker's own original valuation.

I'm a pretty big fan of Henri Marie Raymond de Toulouse-Lautrec Monfa and yet marvel at the relavitely absurd prices folks pay for his artifacts, sketches and paintings. He, of course, received next to nothing!

I also marvel at CEO compensation, sports player salaries, and what my neighbor makes, as well as prices for memorabilia from the estates of Elvis, John Lennon, and Marilyn Monroe. I won't even mention the "defense" budget , trade deficit or national debt.

Wandering OT - furniture criticism, not the plane

Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA


>I didn't mean my comment as an attack on James Krenov. I agree, his passion is delightful. I read all three of his books when they were new and have re-read in them from time to time. When I get back to making furniture (some time this next year, I hope I hope), I am sure that his ideas will influence my work.

My comments were really directed at what I saw as too-slavish devotion to his natural style by others, something I believe, from my reading, that he himself does not like to see.

We live in an era when there is ample information on many historical styles of furniture, and a climate in which it is acceptable to re-interpret those styles. Shaker, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Art Deco, William & Mary, Jacobean, etc., etc. are all available for us to explore and be inspired by.

The thread happened to coincide with my visit to the local show, and my comment was really in reaction to the poverty of sources from which the makers in the show seemed to draw - not that Krenovian work is impoverished, but that it would have been good to see references to more traditions than I did, and incorporation of those traditions into the natural style of the makers whose work was displayed.

Re: Celebrity plane

Tom Price


>I encountered Krenov's books shortly after I got interested in woodworking and read them all. His message was to slow down, think about what you are doing, think of the wood first. Inspired by the 'Fine Art of Cabinetmaking' I eventually bought a hand-cranked grinder and learned how to sharpen tools.

I expect that the plane works well or JK would not have passed it on. But that is very much besides the point. Krenov inspired a generation of cabinetmakers, professional and amateur and sparked an interest in hand planes in many of us. His style of furniture is as distinct and legitimate as any given that it involves a pretty clear set of design and aesthetic principles. What would someone pay for a backsaw from the Dominy shops?

- Tom

Well said, Todd. ROTFL!

Martin from Granbury