Sawing questions

Re: Sawing questions

Christopher Schwarz


>Andy,

Here are a couple things you might want to try:

First: Scribe (or knife-in) your cutline all around the leg. Even better, use a chisel to get a deep knife line. Then make your saw cut like you would a tenon: advance on only two faces with your cut. Then come back the other way, using the kerf as a guide for the second cut. Use a block plane to come down to your knife line if you stray.

Second: Use the reflection of your work in the sawplate to help keep you square and plumb. Before you make the cut, place the sawteeth on the work and tip the top edge of the saw left and right. When the reflection looks in line with the work, you're plumb.

Then rotate the saw left and right (out of square to square to your edge). When the reflection lines up with the work, you're square. As you saw, watch the reflection and make *slight* corrections.

Also, one of the things that causes you to go off line (if the saw is set correctly) is using too much downward pressure or too tight a grip. Use a light grip and just enough pressure for the saw to stay in your control.

Good luck with the sawbench. Did you see our awesome SolidWorks drawings that you can download from the site?

Chris

Re: Sawing questions

VTAndy4


>Thanks for the tips, Chris. I should be able to give everything a second shot this afternoon. I think that I'm going to go for another wood, too, since these boards are so knotty, it's hard to plane them. Thanks for reminding me to loosen up my grip on the saw. I have a feeling that I've been applying a death grip!

As for the SolidWorks drawings, these are simply amazing. I "pulled the sawbench apart" using the "move part" function, and then I take measurements of anthing that my brain needed help understanding.

I wish that I could change the dimensions, but that's probably too much to ask for without buying the full version of the software!!!

-Andy

Re: Sawing questions

Dave Anderson Chester, NH


>Speaking of sawing tips Chris, your article on Mike Wenzloff in the latest issue of FTJ was great. I really enjoyed it.

Re: Sawing questions

Christopher Schwarz


>Dave,

Thanks. It was great fun working with those unusual English saws and talking to Mike Wenzloff. He's a nice guy and knows a lot about saw mechanics.

Chris

Solidworks Drawings?

Tony - Memphis


>How do I find them?

Thanks,

Tony

Re: Solidworks Drawings? *LINK*

Bob Lang


>Chris just left for the day, here is a link to his weblog. Scroll down a little and you'll see where to go for the drawings


Woodworking Magazine Blog

Or this link *LINK*

Christopher Schwarz


>This offers one page of all the SolidWorks drawings. I can play with these for hours.

Chris


WM SolidWorks Illustrations

SolidWorks drawings are great. Thanks.

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)

Re: Sawing questions

Adam Cherubini


>You're right that sawing is difficult.

If you have a video camera, be sure to set it up and tape yourself sawing.

If you cut is square when you start (if you've taken Chris' advice) but later goes awry, the problem could be:

a) that your not keeping your shoulder over the cut. This could be because you are moving the board or stepping back hastily

b) that you are rocking your shoulders. You want to keep your shoulders square throughout the stroke.

By all means keep a loose grip. Remember that pushing the saw down isn't helping. Relaxing your grip and put pressure behind the saw, moving it forward through the wood.

A perfectly square edge is difficult to achieve. I don't always get it perfect either.

Adam

Re: Sawing questions

VTAndy4


>Adam,

Regarding the result, which is often -- or at least sometimes! -- a cut that is not perfectly square, what do you do to it to square it?

Thanks,

Andy

Re: Sawing questions

Adam Cherubini


>Square the edge with a try plane. This is easy if your out of square is on the heavy side. For the most part, that's what I do in fear of an undercut.

Truth be told, I rarely saw a long rip right to the line. No matter what, you need to plane it, right? So I leave a little something. Naturally its easier to plane when the edge is already square.

I saw differently surfaces I don't want to plane, be they cross cuts or joinery.

I don't know if that is answering your question or not. But I think the answer to the question you are asking is that for long rips, I usually plan on planning - the squaring and straightening being done with a plane.- I'm tongue tied.

Adam

Re: Sawing questions

VTAndy4


>Hi Adam,

My fault for not using the right terms! I understand that I would plane a long edge after ripping -- this is actually one of the things that turned out to be easier than I thought it would be!

What I was calling the edge, I should have called the "end" of the board, where it is cross-cut. If my cross-cutting is out of square, either across the thickness or width of the board, how do I straighten the end? With a thin board, it's clear that I could shoot the end. But what about thicker stock, like 1 1/4"?

-Andy

P.S. I've been incorporating all the advice from this thread today. Slowing down, looser grip, checking the reflection, etc. It's made for a 90% improvement in keeping the saw perpendicular to the board. Still need more practice, but I'm convinced that it is really a matter of just sawing more boards!!!

Re: Sawing questions

mikew


>Hi Andy,

When I need to cut just wide of the mark and need to get a nice edge on the end of a board, I typically use a miter jack and shoot the end. If they aren't really wide, say below 3" and not long, I use a regular shooting board.

Take care, Mike

Re: Sawing questions

VTAndy4


>Are there pics/plans for miter jacks out there? All I'm finding is one galoot with an unconventional miter jack, and an historical article on Alf's site.

-Andy

Re: Sawing questions

mikew


>Hi Andy--Alf has updated her miter jack/shooting board page. A good launching site. The bottom entry is an uncommon design which I have promised myself I'll make one day...

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/shootingboards.html

Take care, Mike

Re: Sawing questions *LINK*

VTAndy4


>Thanks!

Hey, speaking of trimming with block planes: what the heck is the jig being used in one of the pics on this LN page? (see link)


http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=102

Re: Sawing questions

mikew


>It's a cool, smallish simplified miter jack. Uses a wedge under the cross-dowel to secure the work. You can just make out the workpiece under the corner of the bronze 102--a plane I love and use a lot.

It's a neat design and obviates the need for a screw. One could make it for a variety of work, including 90 degree ends. Might take a few wedges to handle varying workpiece thicknesses, but it does look like a quick and easy design.

Take care, Mike

Re: Sawing questions

Adam Cherubini, NJ


>Ah!

Yeah its important not to screw up x-cuts that's when you really have to do it right. Here's why: Planing end grain really sucks. So leaving the line and planing down to it is a form of capitulation I've never allowed myself. Essentially, its one of the least fun things you can do with a plane and so planing to do it for every cut is just ridiculous. So I shoot for a winner and do my best, knowing that I can alwasy plane if I have to.

The only shooting I enjoy is target shooting. When an edge needs fixing, I use a smoother. Works fine. I like a curved iron so I can correct an edge like a try plane. Many times in cabinetry, the edge doesn't need to be exact, it may just need to match another board (as in drawer sides, carcass sides etc).

For a thick board, or maybe for every board for a beginner, I really recommend sawing the corners out. I probably learned this from Tom Price or Ralph Brendler 10 years ago. It really works, its good practice, good discipline and is 99% fool proof.

Adam

Re: Sawing questions

VTAndy4


>Thanks!

As far as sawing the corners out goes -- am I picturing this correctly: strike the line that will be the end of the board, then saw out the two corners first. Then saw off the triangle that is formed. Three easier cuts, in other words, instead of one, very critical cut?

Andy

planing end grain

David Charlesworth


>Planed end grain is much smoother than sawn end grain. Essential on all show surfaces of fine furniture.

Although it is slow, end grain planing need be no more difficult than long grain planing, if the tool is good, has a thick blade and is really sharp.

The bulk of excess can be trimmed with a wide paring chisel, perhaps forming a slight "tent", engaging the chisel edge in the cut knife lines.

I like to cut very close, perhaps 4 to 6 thousandths of an inch away from the cut lines with a machine (heresy) saw. This leaves no more than six passes with a plane to perfect the end grain surface.

Re: planing end grain

VTAndy4


>David,

Are you talking about shooting the end grain, or are you simply clamping the board in a vise with the end facing upwards, and then planing it?

-Andy

Re: planing end grain

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>I usually plain end grain with the board held in a shoulder vise. Any board that has end grain that will show. If you think about it, this is not many boards in a finished furniture piece, unless there are through mortices. There are three options that I can readily think of to prevent the splintering at the end that you will get if you don't take precautions. For small boards I just plain a small chamfer on the far end, so the grain doesn't splinter as the iron goes off the board at the end of the planing pass. For medium sized boards I clamp a board to the far end. For wide boards, I plane from both sides of the baord toward the center. I generally use my 60-1/2R, because it is the best plane I have for the purpose. Learning to plane end grain well is a revelation in woodworking. It becomes fun. The test I put my 102 to that I won in the planing contest was to put a piece of white oak in the shoulder vise to see how well the plane does on end grain.

So how'd the #102 do?

cooper suter

Thanks Adam

Dave Thompson


>Glad to hear some concurrence with my personal experience. I think it sucks too... Makes me feel better anyway, that I'm not totally missing something, and that something might be defective in my shooting boards/setups.