Mr. Holtey on infill beds...truth or hoax?

Re: Mr. Holtey on infill beds...truth or hoax? *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Hi Tom

This came up on the Knotts forum when an eBay auction of one of Karl's planes was advertised.

Here is the particular image in question:

The full set of images are linked below.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Holtey A13 Smoothing Plane

Was Spiers aware of Maudsley?

woodburnbob

>Paul, that last picture suggests to me that freehand metalwork with hacksaws, files and cold chisels wasn't how the Spiers factory went about manufacturing the metal shell and parts.

But I suppose there was an evolution from Spiers' beginning in the mid-1860s to the fin de si�cle when that ghostly picture was taken.

Look at the shadow on the wall behind the woman. I'm guesssing there was at least another bank of machines in front of the window(s) that illuminate the woman and the shop for the picture. No Luddites involved in that factory!

What do the machines depicted in Spiers' shop do? That's why I'd like to be there to watch.

I'm not as curious about the current day hand-work process of building infill planes as about the machines and jigs in those old factories. Perhaps you've had a chance to look at the 20 or so machines Maudsley put together to swiftly manufacture tens of thousands of ships' blocks for Nelson, the British fleet, and Trafalgar. As I understand it the assembled wood and metal block parts are completely interchangeable, sturdy and highly functional. To a 19th century British factory I'm not sure there are great differences among ships' blocks, hand guns and infill planes.

Re: Was Spiers aware of Maudsley?

paul womack

>Agreed in all regards, and congratulations on your knowledge of UK machine tool history. Most Americans seem to think that Springfield Armory invented automated/mass production, not Marc Brunel.

Anyway, w.r.t. Spiers, I suspect that the adoption of those techniques was gradual :-)

BugBear

Line Shaft

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Thanks for posting the pictures of the factory. Here is what I see in the inside picture. First on the left is a table with planes. Then I see a large grindstone perhaps 4x30 inches operated by a line shaft.You can see the belt going toward the center of the wheel. The bottom is all enclosed- I wonder if there was water in there. Next is a small grinder or buffing wheel on a stand, also belted up to the shaft. Then I see a treadle lathe changed around to operate with the line shaft also. It still has its old flywheel down below, but there is no belt coming up from the flywheel. There seems to be one more belt between the small machine and the lathe, but I can't see where it goes. You may be right about there being another set of machines, but looking at the shadow you can see the belt coming down diagonally from the same line shaft and I thought it might be fan in the window.

The line shaft allowed a number of machines to operate from a single power source, but it also tended to concentrate all the machinery in a row or two. Looking at this picture the shop looks crowded with machinery, but this may also be the only area with machines.

Warren, I nominate you ...

woodburnbob

>to travel to Ayr and go through the Carnegie Library. Lampert notes in his forward that it "holds significant material relating to the Spiers family including catalogues and photographic archives." It's possible this photograph is but one of many of the factory and its contents.

But the book is limited in what it has to say about methods of work and machinery.

The great thing about the WWW is that it's possible someone living across the street from the Carnegie Library in Ayr might some day see this thread and do a little research and illumination for us all.

Re: Warren, I nominate you ...

paul womack

> Lampert notes in his forward that it "holds significant material relating to the Spiers family including catalogues and photographic archives."

Interesting. If Lampert didn't consider this material relevant to his book, what *is* the emphasis of the book (which I have never seen).

Or did he merely run out of time (or publisher's patience!)

BugBear

Lampert's book

woodburnbob

>I bought the book when first released in 1998. There was talk about it coming out years earlier, so I did a lot of waiting.

You'll have to find a book store and thumb through it yourself. I wasn't disappointed. Kind of a fascinating read with lots of good illustrations.

For me the only short-coming was a dearth of material on the actual process of manufacture at the bench, machine and tool level. Presumably, if it wasn't secretive information, it died with the principals. Take a look at the book. I think you'll be impressed.

From the Amazon.com listing:

"The definitive work on Stewart Spiers, the first major manufacturer of infill planes, and 19th century British metal planemaking. Mr. Lampert provides a detailed description of 100 years of planemaking under the SPiers name and a fascinating description of the historical, social, and economic context in which the family operated. In so doing he fills an important gap in tool history. The book contains wonderful illustrations (drawings and photographs) of all types of Spiers planes, ranging from the earliest known advertisements to the final production models of the 1930s, and includes many pictures of special order planes from private collections around the world. In addition to the superb photos (some in color), there are a number of maps, genealogical charts, catalog illustrations, and patent drawings, tracing not only the Spiers family but such contemporary planemakers as George Rutherford, James Miller, and William McNaught. A series of invaluable appendices deal with Spiers company work locations and the nature of its work force, the numbering sequence of Spiers' planes, and information from two Spiers catalogs and four related ones. The book, a truly important achievement in historical research, is a treasure for the tool collector and historian of technology. 128 pages. 8 1/4" x 10 1/2". Illustrated. Soft cover. $30.00."

Re: Lampert's book

andrew F in Australia

>HI BB,

If you want a copy, the (Australian) author has a few left - please ping me off-line and I'll shoot him your contact details.

Cheers,

Andrew