Announcement

One of the screwed.

John LeBeau

>I am not reassured to hear that only 25 people didn't get their planes. I was one of them. I had 4 planes on order, none of them adjustered, and I had foolishly paid for them in full to the tune of about $1,100.00. I was always reassured in replies to my e-mails that my planes were just around the corner. The last response that my planes were coming was in January.

Now I am out over a grand and I didn't even get an apology for my money! The personal problems of Doug and Ben bring me no solace or joy, but damn it, I was lied to when I still had recourse to get my money back! How is this any different then what Ken Lay did at Enron?

If Doug and Ben are such honest people they can make arrangements to pay back the people they owe rather than just saying "We can no longer help you".

Re: One of the screwed.

arw01

>In what form of payment did you make your plane purchase?

Alan

Re: One of the screwed.

Clay C in Miami

>Even if it was paid by credit card, since Shepherd charged the card on receiving the order (and seemingly made far more promises than planes while the clock ticked) it is likely too late to get a chargeback.

I wrote VISA to appeal the denial of my Shepherd chargeback/refund ($800) and pointed out that the time limit was inappropriate for custom work (where deposits may be required but delivery was not even anticipated to occur within their chargeback time limit), but it was denied -- far too late.

Clay

Re: One of the screwed.

John LeBeau

>It was charged on a Mastercard but as Clay noted it is now too late to rectify, especially now that Shepherd Tools no longer exists. My order was taken, and charged, in August.

I too once owned a small business that went under. I did pull the plug before it took me under, but I left no one else holding the bag for my failures. No suppliers, creditors, or customers especially were shorted any money they were owed.

Even if I were repayed ten years from now I could consider these guys honest. If they were to hand make half of my order and send it to me all would be forgiven. No such overtures have been made. I had to contact them twice before they even told me they had folded. When Ben finally did reply there was just a terse statement that Shepherd Tool was out of business and they could no longer help me. As if they were helpful before that.

All I want people to know is that, if they wanted to, they could rectify this. If there are only 25 orders outstanding it shouldn't be that hard, although it could take them a while. Waiting a few more years is better that just getting shafted.

If they can't do this I hope they never come back in business. Tha way I was treated seems to be their business M.O. and no business like that deserves to survive. If they do come back, don't buy from them!

Re: One of the screwed.

Clay C in Miami

>John said even if he got his repayment years later he'd feel better about it.

Things do happen. I had a tenant in my garage apartment who fell way behind in her rent, and ultimately moved out (she'd lived 17 years in this one-room studio, and she was also supporting her mother ... in any event, I just couldn't bring myself to evict her).

Then last summer, almost five years later, I got a check from her out of the blue for over $6000 - the full amount plus interest. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I don't know if she'd been saving the whole time or had enjoyed a reversal of fortune, but either way she earned big brownie points in my book.

We cast our bread upon the waters, and hope for something better than soggy sandwiches.

Clay

Re: One of the screwed.

Thom D

>At least in the short term the conditions of a bankruptcy normally restrain the bankrupt from making restitution to one set of creditors alone. If they could convince all their creditors that they were going to work something out, then they wouldn't be bankrupt.

Let's say your product is a donut with 17 secret spices, that becomes an asset in the bankruptcy, presumably, and you can't just run around giving people donuts as though you still owned the recipe.

One of the most beloved movies in American Cinema is "It's a Wonderful Life" In it, the Savings and Loan suffers a run on it's assets (admittedly due to criminal action by a competitor). George, son of the manager, stems the run by telling everyone it will all be OK if people just limit their withdrawals to what they really need, rather than responding to fear. In the end he saves the S&L (until the '80s), and probably saves the town. Of course, if the run had consumed all the assets of the S&L, those in the front of the line, whom George had "conned" out of making full withdrawals would have called him a crook and a liar. I guess those kinds of reputational risks are why people in business get paid the big bucks.

Re: One of the screwed.

Tony Zaffuto

>Just a minor addendum to this thread: bankruptcy laws have changed somewhat in this country to where a judge can order the repayment of funds advanced to a creditor in the period preceding a filing. My accountant said that he has reviewed several cases where the repayments were ordered for a period as much as six months prior to the filing!

These guys cannot make any restitution or arrangements with anyone at this point as they are under the watchful eye of a judge, and since they said not only their business is bankrupt but they are personally, that goes for their personal lives too for the moment.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any compensation though. By the time the lawyers and accountants get through taking their share, there is usually nothing left for creditors, especially unsecured creditors.

Re: One of the screwed.

Thom D

>Is that US or Canadian law Tony? The latter applies here as you know. I don't know the current law in either case. The last time I went through a bankrupcy was as an employee in '82. It was quite an interesting experience.

Re: One of the screwed.

Tony Zaffuto

>I'm speaking of the states (written as one of my largest customers--Penetanquishene, Ont.) is in my office.

I've had had customers go belly-up and we were lucky to retreive a couple of pennies on the dollar when the customers knew months in advance what was going on.

We manufacture parts for the automotive industry and in many cases are blind to the financial condition of customers until it is too late. Several years ago, one customer who was paying on time filed Chapter 11 and we were out 75 grand. Last summer, another filed and cost my 12 grand. In both cases, there was no indication since our invoices were paid.

Re: One of the screwed.

Thom D

>I always remember this local two season merchant who had a skating supply for the winter, and a horse riding shop for the summer. He went bankrupt, and stiffed whichever set of seasonal suppliers that was holding his notes, and re-opened the other business on schedule. That's style for you.

Re: One of the screwed.

arw01

>Call your attorney general about the CC company. They are trying to brush you off, the consumer laws are a WHOLE lot more biased in your favor.

File a fraud charge with the credit card company, their policies with their bank might be different. Do not just go away. They make more than enough to absorb the loss, the fees they charged alone would have paid for the last 25 plane kits.

Alan