Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

So, more planes to watch for in the wild

Bill Houghton, cold and rainy in Sebastopol, CA

>is that what you're telling us, Dave?

Sounds like you're having fun with your new...research material.

Some ones you missed...

Scott Burr windy and raining in Ben Lomond,CA

>Record 712-714 series don't come with fences.

Record made a small shoulder plane. 1/2 in wide, with a rosewood wedge based on a Preston design offered by Clifton and LN (their small shoulder plane). I know this because in my gatehering the small shoulder and the 074 are all I'm missing.

Re: Some ones you missed...

paul womack

>Record made a small shoulder plane. 1/2 in wide, with a rosewood wedge based on a Preston design offered by Clifton and LN (their small shoulder plane).

No - the LN is pretty unique; the Preston-Record-Clifton model is this:

Clifton 400

For those wanting information on Record Tools there's now a catalogue reprint, with a historical introduction.

Tool Bazaar, item 16

BugBear (with mainly Record tools in his plane arsenal)

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

paul womack

>(who finally managed to not get out-sniped on a Record catalog I've been coveting for years)

Did you get the 1935 or 1950 one?

BugBear

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Alice Frampton, UK

>Ooo, Dave, that's a Slippery Slope you're on there... The thread on the 040/043 last month proved useful, I finally got round to putting together a page on them here - feel free to check my facts against what you have :~)

Cheers, Alf

Thinking we really need a Blood & Gore, Record-stylee...

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Jeff Schmidt

>"Thinking we really need a Blood & Gore, Record-stylee..."

Someone asked a similar question back in 2002.

Anyone know if Mr. Horobin completed the study? Bugbear?

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Dave Thompson

>I got the 1935, though I did try for a 1959.

So I see you've been watching those too....

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO

>"Unlike the Stanley 50, the Record 050A had a special auxillary piece narrow cutter clamping bracket for holding 1/8" and 3/16" cutters."

My Stanley 50 has a special cutter clamp for these narrowest cutters. Instead of using the sliding section, a large flat-head bolt in used to clamp them to the main section of the plane. According to B&G, this was provided by Stanley starting in 1936. Is the Record version fundamentally different?

Thanks,

Ted

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

paul womack

>I got the 1935, though I did try for a 1959.

So I see you've been watching those too....

Nah - I just searched completed auctions ;-)

BugBear

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

paul womack

> Is the Record version fundamentally different?

yes - the Record hold the 2 narrow blades in a different way from the Stanley.

BugBear

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Alice Frampton, UK

>He started :~) It's a big task - I wouldn't fancy doing it alone.

Cheers, Alf

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

paul womack

>That's just the appendix from PlaneCraft 1953 I think.

BugBea

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Todd Hughes

>I think in over 10 years of old tool hunting I have only ever seen one old Record plane in the wild. Was a plane that was marked "War Time Finish" and looked like a Stanley no.4 though not as well made. I guess they had a real hard time competing up against Stanley here in the USA....Todd

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Jeff Schmidt

>Sounds like an opportunity for some of the U.K. galoots to chip in and give him a hand, particularly with photos.

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Jeff Schmidt

>BB. You are the man for this job. There is a gaping hole in the fabric of internet tool reference that is begging for a tailor.

Re: Record Factoids for hand plane geeks

Alice Frampton, UK

>Dunno; my 1950 copy doesn't have such an appendix. But he did get it from page to 'puter, which is more than I've done! :~)

Cheers, Alf

Numbers Don't Tell the Whole Story

Jeff Schmidt

>First, Stanley had about a 75 year start on Record -that easily accounts for the numbers all by itself.

Second, Record planes were primarily sold through niche woodworking tool distributors, and not through the local hardware store. This means that woodworkers were the predominant purchasers of Record planes, not the farmer or average home owner who bought a plane to fix his stuck door.

It is possible that these woodworkers actually liked their Records and still own them.

Re: Numbers Don't Tell the Whole Story

Todd Hughes

>Have to confess that I don't know exactly when Record started to make planes but most of the Stanleys I see are from the 1920-50 period and I believe Record was also making tools during this same time period. Maybe there are a large amount of Record planes being secreted away by thier now 75 - 100 plus year old wood working owners that I just haven't seen but I have to think that just not many ever got sold or bought over here where wood workers seemed to prefer the Stanley tools....Would be interested to hear from folks over in England if Stanley planes are as rare there as Record planes are here in the wild....Are the old Stanleys really as rare there or are they just being hoarded by centuray old wood workers there as well? ....Todd

Re: Numbers Don't Tell the Whole Story

Jeff Schmidt

>The question is not whether Record was making tools from 1920-1950. The question is whether they were selling them in the U.S. at that time, and if so, through what channel.

I've Heard....

Todd Hughes

>they were sold though niche woodworking tool distributers ....Todd

but...but...they're British planes, right?

Bill Houghton, cold and rainy in Sebastopol, CA

>so, for those of us old enough to remember the old Triumph, BSA, and Norton motorcycles, the proper description would be "Grease and Oil" rather than "Blood and Gore."

Record start date.

Dave Thompson

>Not sure, but here are a few clues.

C&J Hampton of Sheffield made Record planes. According to Preston 1909 reprint catalog they took over the metal plane portion of Preston. In 1935, both Preston and Record brand name planes were available. Many of the Record planes were already of the Preston design.

While I can't find my reference at the moment, I have a dim memory of Record (Hampton) taking over Preston around 1924...

I was going to try to make a guestimate of the age of Record by catalog numbers, however all I know is that the 1935 catalog is #14, 1938 is #16, and 1950 catalog is #16. I'm not sure what happened between 1938 and 1950 such that they have the same number.

Re: I've Heard....

Dale Stansbery

>What's the story on Record in later years? I have this 04 1/2 that I think is from the late 1970's based on the instruction sheet that accompanies it. Are they like Stanley in that later years quality suffered. This one appears to be pretty well built though.

1366 Record & Preston

Dave Thompson

>Scott, Both Preston and Record called it a 1366. Here's a photo. Sorry for the poor focus... (don't have a scanner any more). Text on the record says "Rustless plated, with Rosewood Wedge. 3" long 3/8" Cutter Weight, 1/4 lb. Net price complete 5/6"

enjoy,

Dave