Hey Adam - workbenches again (sorry)

blah, blah, blibbity blah

Adam Cherubini

>I didn't know that article was out yet.

I chose to draw the nicholson bench for two reasons- First, I really didn't want to represent MY shop. Of course there are similarities, but only because I've moved my shop toward that ideal. But I was very concerned about falling into the same hubris trap that has ensnared so many others. Its wrong and doesn't serve the reader to let your stuff wag the dog like that. IMHO FWW "tools and shops" issue is always full of this.

Secondly, I thought it was plain and simple to draw. Did you like the drawings? I had fun doing them. We all laughed and laughed at my little self portrait. Its on its own layer in photoshop and I danced him around the screen with the move tool.

The only thing I don't love about the nicholson bench is that the apron makes it difficult to clamp stuff to the top in front. The advantage of that bench is that it can be made with sawn, thin lumber (in those days). The front apron provides more than enough stiffness. Its light and easy to build. It would be my choice for a bench that needed to move. Its essentially similar in size and shape to the french bench otherwise. The traditional vise on the nicholson bench is unnecessarily bogus. I'd certainly skip it altogether in favor of either a leg vise in the same location, or a twin screw. But I'd put the twin screw as far right as possible. I wonder if a hold fast wouldn't serve tolerably in lieu of a crochet?

In the same way I think there are goals we can understand and move toward, I hope folks understand that's precisely how i see these bench discussions. For me its really not a german v. french bench discussion. Its about a guy who's unwittingly 90% of the way to a french design and who I feel would benefit from the additional 5-10% of flush legs, clean front, etc.

blah blah blah

adam

Re: Hey Adam - Lighting

John Hoffman

>Hey Adam I also liked the article and the pictures of yourself. Can you tell us how the lighting experiment is going. You said three above the bench and some raking. Still like the set up?

Where are your getting the light fixtures and the diffusers?

Thanks

JH

Re: Hey Adam - Lighting

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>Hi Adam,

I recently read the article also.

The part about having benches against a wall.. I used to have my shop set this way, but have since pulled 2 of my 4 benches away from the wall. These are my primary hand tool benches. It was an epiphany for me to have the versatility of being able to walk around the bench and work on either side of the bench.

I'm leaning towards having hand tool benches away from a wall with the experience I have so far.

Of course, shop space is a major consideration and it isn't always feasible to do so..

Norman ( woodworker in progress)

Benches against walls

Adam Cherubini

>I started out with my bench free standing. But I really prefer the tool storage, the added stability, and especially the floor space with the bench against the wall.

When my bench was free standing, I very rarely worked on the otherside of it anyway. It was always wider than my stock and I needed stops over there. It was just easier for me to TURN THE BOARD AROUND YOU LAZY GOOD FOR NOTHING @#%^$&#!

No seriously- I had to scrape portions of my walnut refectory table. It was nice to walk around that and see how the light changed with my vantage point... I know what you mean. Everything is give and take. I haven't read this article since I wrote it, but I hope I explained why I thought such things were important. I don't want you to do it like me, I want to help you to make informed decisions.

Adam

P.S. Just so everybody knows, I was kidding about turning the board aound. You can't always turn it around and benefit from that.

Re: Benches against walls

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Seems to me that your goal in writing this article was to describe how to make do with a very limited space, 4 X 11. To that end, you kind of had to put the bench up against the wall. Also, it may have been better if you'd clearly stated that goal up front. Good article, though, loved the cartoons.

Personally, I really like being able to work from all four sides of the bench, it's handy to be able to turn around and take a tool from the wall, have a different setup on each side if necessary, etc.

Pam

Re: Hey Adam - Lighting

Adam Cherubini

>I really like the raking lights. They work exactly as advertised. I don't turn them on often. My near sight is beginning to fail me (and I'll mourn its loss- hair? forgetaboutit- but my near sight lets me tooth 18ppi saws.). Anyway, I switch the rakers on, turn off the overheads, and let out a sigh of relief. They're great.

The main lights....well it seems the higher the wattage the bulb, the quicker they dim. We need our friend Roger to set us straight on this. So when the bulbs are new they look great. Though the bulbs may last 5 years, they don't look like that for 5 years. More like 5 months. So this is something to learn more about. Don't take my word for it.

That said the bulbs over my bench are pretty low wattage, but high color temp (see the article for specifics)

The fixtures are clamp light fixtures from Home Creepo , I mean Home Despot. They were about $5 each. The bulbs are sylvania, I think I had to go to sLowes for them. Pretty sure you can mail order these. I like the high color temp, low wattage versions. The diffuser is cinegel 3001 held on with binder clips. You buy this in sheets from places like bhphoto.com. I believe its $7/sheet. One sheet will easily fit a half dozen lights. This stuff may also help keep dust off the light bulbs. I don't use the diffusers on all the lights. The cinegel material can touch the bulb and not burn, smoke, or smell. It doesn't dim the light very much at all.

I've tried a couple other lights, and this is the best I've come up with. I didn't care for the lights in the conservation lab in Philly MoA. They used halogens and fluorescents together. They also had "lumen" loss problems. And their bulbs were a lot more expensive, not to mention hot.

I actually have 4 fixtures over my 6' bench presently. Its important to light the ends.

You're absolutely right.

Adam Cherubini

>

Re: Benches against walls

Jamey Amrine

>Pam, I am not sure that Adam's intent was to show how to make do with a small space. The article was, afterall, about the "ultimate" shop, and wouldn't the ultimate shop be spacially boundless from a set-up standpoint? It might have been his intent, but I read it more as showing how little space is needed for an effective shop. There is a fine line here, but I have found that with my limited shop space (13'x19' - nearly hand-tool exclusive) that using less space for your main work area - i.e. your bench and sawing area - can lead to greater efficiency. I find that I seldom step more than 3 or 4 feet from my bench when I am working. If I leave that small area, it is for sharpening or retirieving lumber. If you look at the Dominy shop in the article photo, it is a fairly large space, but the bench area takes up little of that. Tools used infrequently occupy the rest of the area (shelves of molders, the lathe - with that cool great wheel, etc.).

Anyway, just my interpretation.

Re: Benches against walls

Michael Recchione

>I got several hours of shop time today, and while I worked I background-thought about what it would be like to rearrange the shop so that the bench was against the wall. I reviewed some pros and cons of each arrangement. For what it's worth, I decided to stay with the freestanding arrangement (I won't bore you with the details of my thought processes). For me, my shop arrangement is extremely efficient and has evolved to suit the way I like to work over 8 years or so. I may build a Roubo bench and make it longer than the current 6' of my current bench, but it will probably be freestanding.

If I had a window to look out of in the basement, my conclusion would be completely different.

Re: Benches against walls

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sure, the ultimate shop would be at least larger than 4 X 11, if not boundless (I think you could have a shop that's too big). I would agree with you if I hadn't read the end of the article.

In the Hay shop in Williamsburg, some benches are against the wall, others not. And there are many benches.

Pam

Re: Benches against walls

ThomD

>Bench height may play a minor part. My current bench is relatively high, and it isn't particularly wide, at 6'1" Reaching everything on the wall behind is a struggle. If my bench was typicaly low (and three of the ones not in the current rotation are quite low) Then the wall would be better storage. Currently, space is the only reason for having it against the wall.

Re: Benches against walls

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>If my bench was typicaly low (and three of the ones not in the current rotation are quite low) Then the wall would be better storage. Currently, space is the only reason for having it against the wall.

I think a full wall of tools makes better storage, which could free up a lot of your space. And a high bench would only make it more important that it be out from the wall.

Pam

Re: Benches against walls

ThomD

>I agree completely. I just can't walk through the shop in that isntance. I have @ 60 feet of garage width, so I can't complain, but I can't move around either.

Re: blah, blah, blibbity blah

paul womack

>The only thing I don't love about the nicholson bench is that the apron makes it difficult to clamp stuff to the top in front.

Yep (I use a Kirby-esque bench).

But the apron is handy to clamp to if you're doing a lot of edge work.

Different strokes and all that.

BugBear

Re: Hey Adam - Lighting

Patrick Gibbons, Houston, Tx

>My shop's in my garage and I've placed my bench (the tail end of it) close to the door which is facing north. When finishing, this raking north sunlight exposes quite a few things that are unnoticed under artificial light. Still, my garage is dark. Adam's article came along at a good time. I don't care for halogen. Very hot and uncomfortable especially in July/August when it's 100F+ already. Adam your recommendations for lights are very interesting when I think on other articles that would have me spend muy dinero. I once had an electrician look at my garage for rewiring and fixturing; $4000 estimate. To state the obvious, I've made due with less-than-effective lighting.

Re: Benches against walls

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>In a previous iteration of my shop I had the bench against a wall and a pegboard of tools hanging behind it. I'm 5'9" and found it sometimes difficult to reach across the 28" wide bench to reach the tools which were hung higher up. In my current bench room I have the same 72" x 28" bench free standing and accessible from all sides. I really like the freedom it gives me to work comfortably from different sides and often have multiple operations going on from different locations on the bench. My tool wall is approximately 3 1/2 feet behind the primary work side of my bench and provides easy and convenient access to my hand tools. I find a tool wall, with dedicated hangers for most hand tools, to be an effective counterweight to my tendency to leave tools lying all over the bench. The easier the access, the more likely tools are to get put away right after they are used and not clutter things up or find themselves in risk of damage. I'm fortunate to have 2 double hung south facing windows in my basement bench room and have oriented the bench so that the light rakes down the length of the bench. I don't think I'd like to work in the glare of a bench oriented directly under my windows. Other folks might do well under a window if they don't have due south unfettered light.

Re: Benches against walls

Paul in NJ

>Two of my previous shops had my bench against the wall. I agree there are a lot of advantages to having them that way, especially stability and not dropping tools off the back. I have to say I was never happy with that arrangement, it kind of felt like my cubicle at work. Perhaps if I had a window. I never liked being told "Up against the wall":). I am lucky to have an 19' x 19' shop that allows me room all around my bench with a double window off one end. It is more airy and pleasant for me. I paid more attention to making my bench heavier and sturdy to maximize stability. I thought your lighting endeavors promising. I have a lot of overhead fluorescent tubes and some track lights but it is always easier to see in the day time with the natural light coming from the side. I have thought about trying a 'wall of light' to try and simulate the daylight. I enjoyed your article and as always I got a lot out of it. Please keep up the good work.

Paul Dzioba

Thanks Paul

Adam Cherubini

>

Re: Benches against walls

Michael Recchione

>Dave,

It sounds like your shop is arranged very much like mine. My bench is free-standing, about 3 1/2 feet from the wall. I have the pegboard with many of my tools on it hanging on that wall, and I also use the space between the joists above me (it's a low ceilinged New Jersey basement) for many things (like my saw till). My bench has a shelf running between the lower stretchers where my most frequently used bench planes live, and a couple of machinists chests with small stuff.

Right below the pegboard is where my lathe lives, and a little further down that wall is where my sharpening/metalworking bench is. This arrangement is incredibly efficient - I rarely have to even move my feet to get to whatever I need (i.e. I can just bend or turn). I also made a movable tool caddy/chisel rack that I keep on the bench, with my most frequently used things (chisels, layout tools, marking stuff, shims for my face vise, etc) - this allows me to get to the stuff I need the most without moving at all, yet can be moved out of my way very easily.

At least for me, this arrangement is a lot more "ultimate" than the one Adam presents. The only annoying thing about it is that stuff tends to collect at the back of the bench as I'm working, and can sometimes get pushed off. A wall would prevent that, but I think it would cause more annoyance than it would cure.

Re: Benches against walls

Roger Nixon

>Everything is give and take. I haven't read this article since I wrote it, but I hope I explained why I thought such things were important. I don't want you to do it like me, I want to help you to make informed decisions.

Adam, I think your article accomplished this very well judging from this nice thread. I certainly enjoyed it.

Re: Benches against walls

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>I agree, it is a very good article and also very educational.

Also, it makes us sit back and think about why we arrange

our shops the way we do, and what we can do to make it better.

Sometimes a few small changes make a large difference in our work patterns.

As an example, I am left-handed and have needed to make specific changes to the way I orient my work. Bench work can often be a challenge on traditionally configured benches..

A bit of experimentation and approaching the work different ways

has greatly helped me with many tool operation ranging from hand planing right through to sawing.

Someone should write an article about the left-handed woodworker

and how to adapt :)

Norman

Thanks guys

Adam Cherubini

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