Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Dave Jeske --triangle dovetails *LINK*
Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA
>I forgot to mention this time around that Dave Jeske of Blue Spruce Toolworks has come out with a set of dovetail chisels in the triangular shape. See the link down below.
Everything this man makes is worth your attention. I have his marking knives, but maybe someone else can comment on the dovetail chisels (R. J. Whelan comes to mind).
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I've found that I've moved from general do-everything type tools to more specific. Like you, I only use mortising, paring, and timber framing chisels. The bench chisels fill in some gaps now and then. Just glad I found this out before springing for a real expensive set of bench chisels.
Along those lines, I seldom use the LN LA Jack; although I can't seem to bring myself to selling it, probably sentimental about the first plane that I got to work properly. Instead, I use many specific planes.
And on it goes, never reaching the slope's bottom.
Pam
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
gordon thomas
>Good evening Wiley:
what size in the very thin chisel do you find most useful?
thnaks,
Gordon
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA
>Gordon,
I only have the one Tasai very-thin, which is 15mm (~5/8"). There's something about the balance of this thing, with the lighter blade, that makes it very inviting for anything requiring a light touch or fine detail. I'm happy with the 5/8", and would be equally happy with 12mm (~1/2"). This is just me, you understand. Pam said she liked something different.
Here's another name to think about. For general paring use, I like Funahiro a lot (Hida Tool). The reason is the hand relief. His slicks have the handle angled more than either the Tasai or the Imai. I don't care for this feature for dovetails (and Hida doesn't carry the narrow widths in Funahiro anyway, the last time I looked), but it's great for uses where you want hand relief above a surface. I have a 12mm and a 30mm Funahiro genju (super blue steel), and have found that I like the wider one most. A 30 or 36mm Funahiro slick is a great tool, and the width lets you make a slicing type cut which is what you want to do lots of times, like when trimming plugs. If you're interested, and if you use conventional stones for sharpening (I use diamond media quite a bit), you might prefer the Funahiro white steel to the super blue genju, because the latter is alloyed to where it takes considerably longer on the stones to get an equivalent edge to white steel. In my experience, as far as sharpening goes, super blue steel is to blue steel, as A2 is to O1.
Wiley
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
ThomD
>That's pretty much how it is I saw the chemistry on White vs Blue, They ad Chromium, tungsten, and sometimes vanadium and manganese. More wear resistant for sure. US knifemakers don't agree on whether wear resistance means better wear in use. The problem is in abuse across the edge, like dragging a plane blade, these additives don't contribute to better edge wear. In line with the edge, and wear isn't a big deal anyway. Howeverm there isn't conclusive evidence on any of this.
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
ThomD
>I'm completely open to the exchange of ideas, otherwise I'm not learning anything. If there was one right way of doing things, I wouldn't have complete sets of Japanese, British, German, and some Chinese tools in the shop. Along with everything else that pulled up a chair over the years.
I don't have any trouble using bench chisels for dovetails and all maner of other things. I like both paring and hammering chisels. Not sure of any reason why I reach for one over the other. Probably has a lot to do with how the workpiece is oriented. My first chisels were a set of three, 1/8th, 3/8, and 5/8" Materpice tools bench chisels, so I guess I just fell into evil ways early. Com to thik of it, it might have been my timber chisels, hard to remember. Kirby was writing articles in FWW about long chisels. I keep going shorter myself. On nice but not really fancy dovetail in hard hardwoods, I saw the waste. In art level stuff (or the attempt thereof) I chisel the waste, and on quick and dirty softwood I chisel the waste.I also have a router assited method for joints that are really wide like on blanket boxes, or when doing plywood shipping cases or shop furniture.
Whaooo...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA
>Are they as fragile as they look?
I have a 1.5 mm mortice chisel and it scares me that it might break sometimes.
You're talking about the very-thin,
Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA
>right? It does look fragile in the photo. But I've never had the impression using it that it needed to be babied.
Just went and mic'ed it: It's 0.108" just above the bevel section, tapering down from approx. 0.15" at the top of the cutting steel section. I think that 0.108" is about the same as an ECE plane blade.
It's a light chisel alright, but plenty stout enough for any paring job--except for maybe Adam's mortise paring technique (combat paring).
You thinking about any new chisels? I just ordered a crankneck from Kayoko. And another mortise. Ya gotta think ahead on these things, and not get caught short.
Wiley
Re: You're absoulty right, Wiley, as usual...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA
>Combat paring...Love it!
Yea, I'm looking at pearing chisels, need something to get the core out of them;^).
But realy, I'm looking for some nice long pairing chisles.
I'm wondering the difference between long chisles (iron that is) and long handles, any comment?
BTW, I have a set of cranked necks from the japan woodworker...took a lot of flattening to get them into shape, but their very nice. Say something about quality from any vendor...
Thanks for the input!
Re: You're absoulty right, Wiley, as usual...
ThomD
>Paring chisels work a whole lot better for paring than long bench chisels. Not sure why exactly, more cutting power at the edge, and the grips allow one to develop comfortable power. I like the look of the Tasai thin chisels, but they are a specialty chisel. I would buy the regular ones first. There is something in the consumer mindset that hungers after the extreme. Like it is a lot easier to sell "racing" bikes or "mountain" bikes, than bikes designed for the on-the-road-going-to-buy-milk conditions most of us encounter.
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
gordon thomas
>Thanks Wiley. WHar=t is the finest grit diamond sharpening stone that you use for the super blue steel ( genju)?
I do not wish to purchase a separate set of stones just for a couple of chisels.
take care,
Gordon
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA
>Gordon,
Coupla points:
1. If you want to try Funahiro, consider the white steel, and use the stones you have now. They're not a second quality of chisel--they just use the traditional steel. The same guy forged them, and the Funahiro faithful like the straight high carbon steel A LOT. And you don't complicate your sharpening procedures, which is a big deal if you ask me. A major milestone is getting settled into a sharpening routine that is effortless for you, and a normal part of shop life.
2. What stones do you have now? If Shaptons, you may be OK anyway for sharpening the alloyed 'genju' steel. Shaptons will sharpen that steel, but IMO it takes longer than I want to wait to get the real edge. A2 is slow too, IMO, even though Shapton will sharpen it. The thing is, I'm an impatient sharpener. Want results now. So when A2 came into our world, I converted over to diamond paste. Also hollow grinding, which I highly recommend to everyone who will listen.
Simple answer to your question: I use 1/4-micron diamond paste for the final hone. If you want to add one diamond plate as a final hone, I would suggest 1/2-micron on a steel or cast iron plate. It has to be a pretty smooth plate for that fine a grit. Probably the ideal surface would be the shoe of a beater Stanley--just mount it upside down.
I use long-ago-bald Norton diamond stones as substrates for diamond paste--and I mean bald. They work great. But this brings up a point. These expensive embedded-diamond stones tend to disappoint folks (they did me) by giving up their bite way earlier than you're expecting--I think the blade just ploughs 'em out of the matrix. I suggest paste if you want to use diamond.
Wiley
Re: Flat (usu) versus triangle (shinogi)
ThomD
>Good stuff.
Diamond plates
Jim Reed @ Tallahassee
>My experience with chisels is the same as yours. I think you are correct--the chisel just scrapes the diamonds off the plate. I have much better results using diamond plates to sharpen pocket knives.