Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Trapezoid Power
John Hoffman
>Just got my 1/4 Ray Iles mortis chisel from Joel. I hammered that pig sticker into some white oak and instead of having to pry it out like a cut nail, I was able to pull it out easily due to the 18th century trapezoid technology. This chisel is awesome and it goes deep. Love the handle and with practice will be able to do the Adam/Moxon technique quite fast.
Regards
JH
Re: Pig sticker question
Marc in Luxembourg
>Congrats to your new pig sticker! Could you explain what's 18th century trapezoid technology and Adam/Moxon technique? Or maybe you have a link?
Thanks, Marc
Re: Pig sticker question
John Hoffman
>As I understand things, the "new" chisels are a re-creation of the old style that was used during the 18th century. So the shape of the chisel is back to the old way enabling it to function very very well. The trapezoid design allows the chisel to release from the wood whereas a parrell sided tool is very hard to get out of the wood. This allows one to hit the chisel deeply and work faster. Chris Schwarz has described this issue like a copy of a copy where the details get blurred and let out of the new issues of tools. The shape of the tool is really important so the "new" chisels get back to the original rather then a copy of a copy.
Adam described a technique found in Moxon for placing the butt of the chisel into your shoulder and driving the chisel with your shoulder. These chisels have a very large oval handle that allows one to grab the chisel with the left hand placing the butt into the should and using the right hand to guide the blade through a mortis or rabbet. This was described in Adam's Arts and Mysteries column titled "Advanced Chisel Techniques" in Popular Woodworking. It was issue number 148 June 2005.
Re: Pig sticker question
John Hoffman
>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/store/viewabstract.asp?view=1948
Hope this works, it is the index section of Popular woodworking magazine. I searched articles by Adam Cherubini then selected advanced chisel technique. There is a picture of Chris using this technique.
Good luck.
JH
moxon, moxoff
frank shic (walnut ck, ca)
>john-san, pray tell what do you use that moxon method for? i'm squinting at this picture of chris pushing the chisel with his shoulder and i'm not sure exactly what he's doing... is he rabbeting or plowing a groove?
Re: moxon, moxoff
John Hoffman
>This idea is in Moxon and was described and written about by Adam. I think Adam said this technique can be used for grooves, rabbets, fillisters, and for mortising. I have only used it for mortesing.
Regards
JH
Re: moxon, moxoff
Dean J in MN
>FWIW --
I use the Moxon tecnhique for rabbeting, plowing grooves, mortises, removing waste from between tails/pins, etc. In general, if I can hold the chisel as described in Moxon, I do. The only times I do not use a chisel that way is to chop the baselines of the dovetail waste, or some paring operations where I just can't get my body in the postion to push with my shoulder.
Moxon was right to say "..this Posture, all Workmen are at first taught, and Practice doth so insure them to it, that they would, they could not well leave it."
I felt awkward holding a chisel that way at first, but now it is second nature to pick up the tool and use it in that fashion.
-Dean
INTERESTING technique!
frank shic (walnut ck, ca)
>you know what guys? i would NEVER in my lifetime have thought about holding the chisel in this non traditional manner, but i just tried it and it seems like i have more CONTROL with both hands steering the chisel. is that the main BENEFIT? and can adam cherubini post some more pics for those of us who missed out that month in popoular woodworking?
Re: INTERESTING technique!
Dean J in MN
>Funny, the method Moxon descibes is traditional. It is just that we have lost touch with those traditional methods. There is a lot to learn from those cabinetmakers. As someone said, just because they are dead doesn't mean they were stupid.
I think the benefits are many, as you found control is one. Power is another, your body can put a lot of energy behind that blade, and the control you get means you can hog of a lot of wood in a short amount of time. Roughing out a rabbet is quick, cleaning it up with a rabbet plane after you hog off waste is something I do at times. You also have a better view of the lines you are working to when you hold a chisel a la Moxon.
The more you dig into old tools, shapes of handles, sizes of tools, and techniques you'll find things all had a reason which were driven by the needs of the cabinetmaker, not the marketing folks.
Keep at it, you'll find more and more benefits of your own.
-Dean
Not just for cabinetmakers
Bob Hackett(Mainely,Bob)
>With alittle digging you may find some useful techniques that you can adapt if you research some of the methods of work among boatbuilders.
The slick was also driven by one`s shoulder(that`s why they had a large flat knob on the end of the long handle)and steered with both hands.
For a real treat find someone who still knows how to correctly use an adz.There`s a reason they sometimes called them "shin hoes".
Many of the joiners I used to work with still made and used thier own wooden planes and roughed out using things like axes and drawknives.Push drills and braces were also favorite tools.
Much easier to walk the neander path when the only outlet in the boatshed is taken by heaters and lights and the nearest building is on the other side of a 6 foot snowdrift.
Mainely,Bob
Re: Picture of Adam using that technique
Bjenk Ellefsen
>Here's a picture of Adam in action.
Foul!
Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon
>I must keep my end of the bargain.
Joel, objects to the use of "Pig-sticker," and I've agreed to decry the use of the pejorative term. (He, BTW, also objects to Galoot. It�s a good thing you didn�t use that term too in your post. Who knows what I�d have had to do then!)
In return, Joel�s agreed to police the use of derogatory terms in relation to bevel up planes!
So, please, rip the letters P-I-G off the keyboard. We�ll figure out what you�re typing most of the time without them!
:)
Cheers,
Greg
Re: Foul!
frank shic (walnut ck, ca)
>lease excuse hs norance!
Re: Foul!
John Hoffman
>Yes, well I admit that I am limited in correct terminology. Pig Sticker came to mind when I was holding the tool and thought that if I had to kill a pig or a person that this thing would work no matter what I needed to penetrate. Just a thought...no derog intended.
Regards
JH
Re: Foul!
Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon
>Hey, it's Joel that complained...not me!
I'm just holding up my end of the bargain...
(Really, it's more a private joke betwixt myself and Joel, so don't feel bad at all...)
Cheers,
Greg
1000 words
frank shic (walnut ck, ca)
>that helps a great deal, bjenk!
Re: Picture of Adam using that technique
John Hoffman
>I like the 18th century watch!! :>