Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Frank D. in Montreal

>Denis, don't worry you got an excellent plane. Someone I know who bought the same plane from Rob (Cosman) last year had the same experience with the blade. Give it a good sharpening and you'll see a difference. I have owned both planes and, while a lot of people like the LV, I prefer the LN by far, less chatter on end grain IME. I also prefer the lateral adjuster on the LN: your finger and thumb, a lot easier to use for me than the Norris type lateral adjust. There is enough lateral play not to worry about sharpening the blade square (it doesn't have to be square).

Thanks again for the beech...can't wait to make a plane with it.

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Paul Kierstead

>A sharp blade well bedded with the correct cutting angle and a small mouth will take nice shavings, whether it be LN, LV or some ancient woodie.

It'll work just fine.

Relax Denis, all is forgiven

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>The LN 60 1/2 (LA) is a very nice block plane. I have never used the LV equivalent, so I cannot make a comparison (what can I say - I like the size of the LN, and I already had a "large" block plane, a Stanley #65 with Hock blade). My LN is an extremely good performer, and I have no doubt that yours will soon be the same.

LN vs LV? Even if the performance were the same, it would come down to which size you feel fits you best. I used to grab my #65 - which I think is the same size as the LV - when making a fine cut. The #65 really is a superb block plane, and slightly better than the LN. But, in spite of this, now I reach for the LN as it is more comfortable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I am not credible, maybe

john jesseph

>I agree with Frank. It would be one of the last planes for me to get rid of. I have not tried the LV, but haven't seen the need to. Price is a key consideration in LV marketing, I would guess, trying to hit specific price points. I doubt LN takes that into consideration as much, could be wrong. I'd stay with the vintage block plane if it was purely price vs. performance.

Not as much difference between LV and LN price-wise than say between LN and Wayne Anderson's, and I'm sure the LN would get the job done nearly as well in most if not all circumstances. That hasn't kept me from tempting (and maybe treating) myself.... I am certainly coveting, and trying to resist...

You're gonna love it.

Bob Dodge

>Hi Dc,

Well, I'm glad to hear you took the plunge. You're gonna love that plane, Denis. I found that Lie-Nielsen by far the most comfortable to use of all the metal block planes I tried. Fit and finish is superb, and it has a good hefty feel to it. I find the adjustable mouth on the Lie-Nielsens, unbeatable. Put together like a Swiss watch.

I'm a bit surprised that the blade wasn't as sharp as you woulda liked. Rob probably would have redone it on the spot. When he did mine, the hairs were leaping off my forearm before the blade got there. Wellll, almost ;-))

I hope you guys had a great time at the show Denis. I really woulda liked to see you and Jack, Norm, Frank D, and all the boys. I'll try to get up your way again soon. I'd like to talk to you about your L-A jack.

All the best, Bob

Re: You're gonna love it.

Norman (Metcalfe, Ont.)

>I picked up the teeny LN Dovetail Marker at the show.

This has got to be the coolest small marking tool around,

comes in a miniscule box also..

Fun part was showing my wife this purchase and hearing:

"oh, I was afraid you bought something large and expensive".

Then she sees the new "GI tilting mortiser with stand"

Frank D. and I hauled into the shop ,, he,he,he....

Frank was gracious enough to help deliver this to me..

Just finished setting it up and testing, one sweet machine.

Norman

Heyyyy Norm, ;-))

Bob Dodge

>Good to hear from you Norm. Wow, that G.I. mortiser is SOME machine. I'm thinking of getting rid of my bench-top mortiser, and springing for one of those. I ALMOST got my hands on one of the big General floor model mortisers last fall. It was at a school shop, and not being used. In fact, they didn't even know what it was. They referred to it as a drill-press. probably woulda cost me a bundle though. You wouldn't believe the price of the individual chisels on that machine. More than the cost of the entire G.I. mortiser fully equipped. Geesh.

Nice score on the dovetail marker, Norm. I was looking at those on Saturday. I had promised I'd buy only one plane at most, but I also sprung for a Tite-Mark marking gauge and that was it. I said to myself, "enough alreadyyyy" ;-)) Well, by the time I got home, I think I've convinced myself that I'm going to also get the low-angle jack. I gotta see what all the fuss is about. I'm not thinking of using it as a heavy smoother, but rather for flattening butcher-blocks, and as a "shooter". All end-grain work. I should know today if I'm going to take the plunge.

Well, Thank God you had Frank D along to give you a hand with that machine. Had it been me, you'd probably still be feeding me oxygen, face-down in your driveway ;-)) That young whipper-snapper sure is in good shape, isn't he ;-))

Norm, I gotta get my buns up there soon and see you guys again. I would have loved to be there on the Sunday, since that's the day I prefer going to the show, but my buddy could only attend on the Saturday. I'll try to get up that way next time you guys have a get-together. Say hi to all the boys for me.

All the best, Bob

Do skip the test fit!

Garrett in Victoria

>Hi Denis

Cosman argues persuasively that the joint won't fit nearly so well on the second assembly, and all you need to do is check to make sure you can still see your half-lines on the saw-cuts.

I was skeptical, too, but on my second attempt I applied glue and went with no test. I was really quite surprised at the result. (And a teeny bit proud.)

Cheers, Garrett

Denis...

Rob Lee

>... all is forgiven... go forth and spend some more....

Cheers -

Rob

You have mail...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Hi Denis. Looks like even Rob is mortal. Don't give up on the freehand sharpening and the Charlesworth back bevel. This can save lots of time, especially the back bevel, but it does take practice. As long as the blade is flat (which the LN blades are usually pretty close to being flat), it does only take 30 seconds for the intial sharpening.

The LN block plane is a beauty, and certainly fits my hand better than the LV version, but I just don't like the LN advancing mechanism/lack of lateral adjust thing. I'm at the point where I can reliably sharpen the blade square, but even so, I find with my LN 60-1/2R, that if I try to advance the blade, it often skews the blade as it pushes it forward. This is in part due, I think, to the square recess in the blade for the adjustment mechanism to fit into. The square recess also only allows for a small amount of skew to correct an un-square sharpening job. The LN block plane is a beautiful tool, with obviously much finer machining tolerances than the LV version (look at the adjustable mouth plate for evidence of this), but I really like lateral adjusters.

The lack of a lateral adjuster is more acceptable to me on tools that receive less use (such as an iron mitre, shoulder plane, or the 60-1/2R), but on a plane that gets continuous use (such as a low angle smoother or a block plane), I like flexibility of the lateral adjuster.

Now as far as 4-1/2 smoother's go, the LN version gets my wholehearted approval over the LV version.

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Rob Lee

>Steve -

"look at the adjustable mouth plate for evidence of this"

Can you clarify what you mean by this?? We intentionally deburr the toeplate and mouth edges to make them "safe"...which, of course, means that there a discernable line along both sides...

We also do this on the toes of the shoulder planes. If we left them as milled/ground - the seam would be almost invisible - but exposed edges would be razor sharp...

I can only speak to our own milling tolerances - but I can't see why there'd be any differences there...

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Todd Stock

>I think it ends up a question of what is comfortable in your hands, and how well you sharpen.

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I can understand putting a slight back bevel on an old blade that has had some rust in the past and is just slightly pitted. But to take a new iron and right away start putting a back bevel on it just doesn't seem right to me, no matter how small the angle, because the angle will tend to have to get larger every time you hone it now. I get very good results in a reasonable time without putting a back bevel on brand new irons. I learned a lot from Mr. Charlesworth's books, but this is one pointer I will just skip over most of the time.

Re: Back bevel

Kurt Loup, Baton Rouge

>Denis,

I've been using the ruler trick on my bench plane irons and I have been curious about a bb on bevel up planes. I have the Charlesworth DVD on sharpening and he never mentioned (unless I missed it) the ruler trick for block planes. So, Rob Cosman was using a bb on bevel up planes? Correct?

Kurt

Re: Back bevel

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>I use it.

However, I use a piece of W/D 600 grit sandpaper, wet. I put it at the very end (back) of the iron. I have no real idea what angle this is, but it's incredibly small. I only do this at 8000. It polishes a pretty deep strip along the back.

It may not be the very best option, my I'm too lazy I guess. (I have thought about a couple of cast plates with diamond and doing the whole back, but haven't yet.)

Cheers,

Greg

He did on my blade

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I can't say if that's something he usually does, I only have a sample of one.

But it seems to me that putting a BB on a bevel up blade bedded at 12 degrees could potentially diminish the relief angle to a troublesome level.

I think I'll remove it on my blade.

DC

Something else Cosman does... He rarely cares to lift the plane on the return stroke...

Re: He did on my blade

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Denis

If it is a true DC micro backbevel using the Ruler Trick, that is about 1 degree (probably 2 degrees since the block plane blade is shorter), then it will have no effect on the cutting angle. You need to a clearance angle of about 6 degrees on a 12 degree bevel up bed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Hi Rob. I took a look at my LV plane last night, comparing it to my memory of the LN plane.

As you say, the LV plane has the edges relieved making the tolerances appear larger, the LN does not. On my LV plane I could fit a 2 to 3 thousandths feeler gauge in the gap between the side of the adjustable toe and the plane body. On the LN I'm sure you couldn't fit anything in there - the line is so fine as to be almost invisible. This is why I said that I thought the LN had finer tolerances. Does this tolerance make any difference? For the toe plate, I would say no; two thousands spread over an inch or so of length does not allow the toe to cock at all while being adjusted.

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Steve,

I have the same thing with the two LV BU Planes. The toe plates are definitely proud of the sole. No one has lapped them or fettled them and they do not have any burs or shavings trapped to make the toe plates sit proud.

My LN on the other hand does not show any light or at least very litte with the same straight edge.

I have pics

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: He did on my blade

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Denis,

The Charlesworth ruler trick is one of the best fool proof ways of always guaranteeing you remove the bur after sharpening. It also allows Rob and others to put a plane to work much quicker.

I have used the Charlesworth trick on all of my planes whether the are LN, LV or old Bailey's and have no problem.

If you lap a plane blade on a concave stone and then flatten the stone your lapped blade edge will never remove the bur cause the honed edge will be higher then the stone (providing the stone was concave when lapping and flat when sharpening)

This is why DC's method is so appreciated by many.

Pop Woodworking did a great article on the Ruler trick if I recall. You might want to see if your library has a copy.

I suspect the edge on your blade got damaged when the blade was re installed in the plane, the mouth got closed down, or the cut on the beech was too heavy and it dulled the blade

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

GolfSteve in Calgary

>My toe plate is not proud of the sole; I was speaking of a the side-to-side fit of the toe plate into the plane sole.

Re: Forgive me Father Lee, for I have sinned...

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Sorry bout that. I haven't checked or found the side to side to be a problem on the Veritas planes I have but I recently took apart my LN 62 and had a heck of a time removing the toe plate cause it is tight. The tight toe plate does not seem to affect the adjustment of the mouth.

For those that need to know I took it apart for a waxing and rust removal which is something I do every year.

Cheers

Dan Clermont

I think you got it turned around...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>You would haved sinned by not getting the LN ;^)

Besides the LN is much nicer to look at and drool over...