anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane?

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

Neal (San Jose)

>There are several possible ways to approach this. eBay, as you mentioned, usually has many round planes up for bid, but there are a couple of likely pitfalls. First, of course, is not being able to physically examine for condition, correct blade fit, etc. Second, is that there are at least two different standards for measuring the radius the plane will cut. To further complicate things, at least one manufacturer - Ohio Tool - changed standards sometime during their manufacturing life. So, just buying a plane stamped "3" on the end doesn't guarantee that it is really going to cut a 3/8 raduis. I've bought several off the 'Bay, and have been generally happy - sellers usually do a pretty good job of describing the things, and pictures do help, but getting the exact size you want is sort of hit-or-miss.

Another avenue would be to buy a new one from Clark and Williams. Unfortunately, I've heard that they are way back-logged, so if you are in a hurry, this may not be such a good idea. You will also probably pay something like 20 times as much for one of their plane than an eBay plane. I have one of their smoothers, and will vouch for their amazing quality.

A third approach would be to make your own. Hopefully, some of the people that have used this approach will chime in. There are a couple of good books (check the book review section) that tell you how, and there are classes with world-class instructors also.

Another approach would be a combination plane like the ubiquitous Stanley 45. One of our frequent posters, Jim Reed makes high quality aftermarket blades at reasonable prices if you can't find the exact Stanley blade you need. This would give you some added flexibility and may be your best solution if you are in a hurry.

Or, you could check out P.A.S.T. or one of the other old-tool organizations and find out the date of the next auction/swap meet/gab fest. The P.A.S.T. meeting in Sonoma was in the Fall, as I recall, then there is a one out in the Valley in Summer, and one down in Spreckles (near Monterey) in the Spring. Their big annual meet is in San Diego in Late January, but that may be a bit of a drive for one plane (and with no guarantee that you will even find one that fits your need.)

Or, you could drive down to San Jose and borrow one of mine. I don't deliver!

HTH Neal

Maybe a "hollow" *LINK*

David Barnett - Venice, Florida

>If you wish to round over a moulding, you'll want a "hollow" plane, Frank, and if you want to round over to a 3/8" radius perhaps this article by Ken Greenberg will help you fine a hollow in the correct size.

In addition to eBay and/or C&W, you might also try a reputable used handtool dealer: Tom Bruce, Sandy Moss, Patrick Leach, to name a few.


Sizing Hollows and Rounds

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

ThomD

>These chinese planes are nice. I bought a set from LV, unfortunately they don't sell the full set, and they must have been onto something because Woodcraft seems to have dropped the sets also.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?DeptID=2118&FamilyID=4432

Ah! JW has them, and they have created a website that is more than a PDF of their catalog:

http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=12915

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

ThomD

>Or

http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=12914

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>guys, thanks for your responses - especially the highly detailed one my neal! i'm going to go with japan woodworker. thanks a million, thom! now i'm another step closer to COMPLETE router freedom! anyone got any ideas what to do with them, now? maybe a dedicated shelf hole drill...

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

Adam Cherubini

>Frank,

I think what you want is a sash ovolo, not a hollow.

Router bit manufacturers have tried to copy period moldings, but they don't look real close. Round cross sections are pretty rare in classical architecture and the period work derived from it. That 3/8" "round" over bit is a copy of a ubiquitous 3/8" ovolo (whose cross section is elliptical). Ellipses reflect light differently, make nicer cross sections at the corners, and require less thickness for the width of molding.

I see router bits in magazines and they all look awful to me. I know you can custom grind or order better looking bits but that just seems so extreme. I wonder why someone doesn't make bits that are exact copies of period moldings. It seems there is no nexus between power tools and faithful reproduction pre-industrial furniture.

Anyway, I recommend buying a cheap sash ovolo on ebay or contact Tony Murland. I'm sure he's got a shop full. If all else fails, e-mail me offline and I'll get you some loaners.

Adam

thanks for the advice, adam!

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>nice period garb in popular woodworking BTW :)

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I think the main reason they don't (other than lack of imagination) is that their CNC grinding machines can easily cut a quarter circle, but grinding an ellipse is a lot more difficult. Or maybe it's easier for the geeks who program the machines to think inside the square box. OTOH, The Classic Greeks realized that if you grind a quarter circle on a blade tilted at about 45�, you automatically get a nicely proportioned ellipse. It seems as if, for some unknown reason, the Romans decided elliptical arcs were somehow unpleasant, so they figured out how to lay out a circular molding and geometrically project it onto an angled blade, so they could grind the blade with a curve that gave them a circular molding. Maybe their engineering training overwhelmed their artistic sense?

Maybe the Romans were the original Normites? :^) Somehow, I don't think so. Instead, I think their architects drew what they wanted with compass and ruler, and left it to the craftsmen to figure out how to make the tools that would get those results. I'm speculating, because the oldest references I have are Palladio (15th Century) and Chippendale (18th Century), a long way removed from the Ancients. Palladio shows elliptical arches. He also shows how to construct an ogee with 60� circular arcs instead of the 90� circular arcs found in routah bits.

However, if your molding plane is sprung (held at an angle, instead of perpendicular to the face of the stock), then the geometry for laying out the grinding of the blade to get the elliptical profile you desire gets a lot more complicated, even more complicated than laying out the profile of a Roman bead, ogee, etc. Even finding a course in projective solid geometry, much less converting the results into boolean algebra and computer code, is difficult.

Here's one maker... *LINK*

Doug Evans

>Marty Sivar of PA-Planes uses our irons to make Hollows and Rounds amongh other things.

http://www.pa-planes.com

Cheers,

Doug


http://www.pa-planes.com

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

ThomD

>It's really easy to modify whatever shape you want for your plane in a CAD program, you just draw the curve/shape you want, and then make an axial change proportional to the angle. So to lengthen a curve for a 45 degree beddng angle, you just stretch whichever axis you want by 1.414. If you want a 50 degree bedding angle, just do the trig, or more directly construct a 1" triangle with a 50 degree slope in cad, and pull the numbers off that, then stretch the shape by that amount, 1.56. If you are going to skew the blade, you can measure for that also.

I like the cad because you can easily develop the shapes of the sole, and blade, and any laser print-outs can be used as transfers to wood or metal. I used to do the projection method but the product was much more difficult to scale to the actual plane.

Hollows are components of a circle. But not full quarter rounds. The advantage is you can use them in shallower shapes as well, and you get more of a cutting action than you can easily get from a shape that goes through 90 degrees.

Re: anyone know where to get a ROUND molding plane

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Why didn't I think of that? Or, maybe, more appropriately, "What hath Babbage wrought?" which was the title of a column featured in a '60s and '70s computer science trade journal, maybe Byte?

Usually, hollows and rounds have 60� arcs (more or less) instead of 90� that we find in router bits.

Another approach

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Look in your basic hand tool books - the good new ones - or search the archives or articles here for the term "scratch stock." This is a scraper rather than a plane, but is a lot cheaper and simpler to make yourself than a plane would be.

Sage wisdom from Bill H...

David Barnett - Venice, Florida

>I'm currently doing a lot of smallish work in buxus sempervirens and castello and I've developed profound respect for the simple scratch stock. And don't eschew it for other media. It's the charm for scagliola, ivory, and hard microcrystalline waxes, as well.