here's to you, mr. william duffield!

Re: here's to you, mr. william duffield! 

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>

Re: here's to you, mr. william duffield! 

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>

By gosh, I think he's got it!

Neal (San Jose)

>When do you want me to schedule you as a guest speaker for Bay Area Woodworkers?

Re: By gosh, I think he's got it!

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>haha... thanks for the encouragement, neal! let me work on getting the joints GAP-FREE first, ok? where are you guys meeting, anyways?

Re: By gosh, I think he's got it!

Neal (San Jose)

>We move around (and not to stay ahead of creditors). Last week we were in SF on 3rd ave. at a cabinet shop. Next month we will be in Redwood City. Have you gone to Diablo WW yet? I think they meet at a high school in Walnut Crick. A lot closer to you.

P.S.

Neal (San Jose)

>Check out:

http://www.diablowoodworkers.com/

and

http://www.geocities.com/bawanewsletter/

Re: By gosh, I think he's got it!

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I'm always glad to help push someone over the edge. Good work, Frank.

Neal, you don't want to give Frank a swelled head. Just wait until he's as good as I am at hiding my gaping dovetails, exposed drawer bottom rabbet ends, taildoves, and similar mistakes, and then get him to speak. Knowing how to fix or hide boo-boos will get you a lot farther a lot faster as a woodworker than cutting perfect joints every time on stage. Depends on whether your priorities are to make furniture or sell tools :^)

Re: here's to you, mr. william duffield!

George Makowski

>Frank, By the non-existant authority vested in me by my long career as an isolated book and self-taught woodworker with a few old world foundations, I hereby declare your acceptance into the Ancient and Worshipful Company of Woodworkers. You may now wear your apron in public and display your dividers and square.

Keep the feast of St. Joseph the Worker/Carpenter.

Protect the mysteries!

Festina lente.

George in AL

Re: By gosh, I think he's got it!

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>funny that you mention hiding mistakes, william... while i was practicing, i accidentally oriented the tails/pins in the other direction which made me realize why you don't see more joints cut that way - they don't hold!

i really like frank klausz's approach to cutting dovetails which dispenses with the dovetail marking gauges and calipers. it just feels so much more... SPONTANEOUS! plus i figure that the dovetails are not the actual END in and of themselves. after all, when the drawer's closed, no one's really going to notice, right?

thanks george, i humbly accept!

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>i was just telling my wife last night that ellis should make up a bunch of t-shirts that say: "i survived HAND cutting dovetails" and sending them out to anyone that manages to pull one off. if i can do the same thing with making framed raised panels, then i'll really have little use for my two faithful little finger-chomping routers!

And it looks like pine...

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Which is difficult to dovetail neatly!JR

Re: And it looks like pine...

frank shic

>joe, does it make a difference? i've been wondering if i used a hardwood like poplar if the results would be better. what do you guys say?

It makes a world of difference...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA

>Pine is very hard to work with here. You need really sharp tools to do pine well. That said you did a great job on those DT's.

Try poplar I think you'll find it much better to work with.

Scott, who hates working with pine...

Re: And it looks like pine...

Dean J in MN

>

joe, does it make a difference? i've been wondering if i used a hardwood like poplar if the results would be better. what do you guys say?

Yes and no. Dovetails in harder hardwoods are more demanding. Hard maple to hard maple is a good test of your skills, you can't count on the pin/tails compressing to fit like you can with softer woods.

Pine, in my experience, makes me feel like a hero. If you have sharp chisels it is my favorite to dovetail. I luck out by the fact that drawer front dovetails (you know, the ones people seem to really judge the furniture by, which is a whole different topic) are usually a softer wood for the sides into a harder wood for the drawer fronts. You can use the fact you get away with a little compression to your advantage.

Case dovetails are hidden, so you need not fret over a little gap here and there. They have to be good enough to hold the case together, and you'd be amazed how strong even less than cosmeticaly perfect dovetails are -- try to break some of your trial boards sometime.

You're doing great, keep cutting those joints!

-Dean

thanks guys!

frank shic

>i'll definitely work on cutting some DT's in poplar after i get the rest of these drawers finished (six in all). i just bought a an 8" dovetail saw from diefenbacher tools after reading an article about how the handle grip can affect the quality of the cut - is this true? the quest continues!

Re: By gosh, I think he's got it!

frank shic

>hey neal, thanks for the reference! i'll drop by after i finish raising my two daughters (2 1/2 and 1 month!).

Re: Pine :^( and a funny story *LINK*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I hate pine, too. It's too soft. It gives up too easily. If you cut the pine tails a little too bit, you can still bash them together and they fit tight. However, pine teaches you bad habits. If you try to use the same "a smidgen oversize" methods in something like cherry, the pin board just splits. Then you have to bash the joint apart, glue the board back together and repare (repair?) the joint to fit properly.

A funny story: Last year at the Ft. Washington WoodWorks Show, Frank Klaus was set up right inside the front door, quickly and precisely hand cutting dovetails in seasoned hardwood, using Lie-Nielsen saw and chisels, to the amazement of all. Joanne Adler (who posts on the Main Message Forum) came up to Chris Schwarz' bench at the PW booth, looking for something really difficult to cut dovetails in, to take back to Frank. Chris found some white pine (I think it was from a packing crate) and sawed off a hunk for her. She gleefully took it back to Frank's bench. I was too busy talking with Chris, or maybe across the aisle, ordering a bullnose shoulder plane from Lee Valley, and didn't get to see Frank's reaction when she handed him the board. A bit later, she brought the autographed joint back to show us. It was perfect, as was, I'm sure, every other joint he made that weekend.

Um Frank, I hate to break the news...

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>as Yoda might say, "there is have children or not have children; there is no 'finish.'"

That said, it does slow down when they hit about 25.

Yes, handle quality matters

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>which is why I keep looking for old Disston and Sons saws - such lovely handles.

Re: thanks george, i humbly accept!

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Frank,I made one set of cabinet doors in my house using a horizontal panel raiser bit in a r**ter table and that spinning finger eater scared me so much I learned to hand shape them.Panel raising and dovetails are the two operations that convinced me to learn hand tool use.Now I don't even consider using power and it's not hard to learn.If you keep it simple it's easier than dovetails.---Jack

if i remember correctly...

frank shic

>didn't she ask frank to do a half-blind dovetail joint? he said he'd do it if they could find a piece of wood... got to get to one of those woodworks to meet the man before he passes on!

finger eaters

frank shic

>jack, several months ago while i was building my kitchen cabinets for a recent remodel (it's not done yet otherwise i'd post the pictures, ok?!?) i kept thinking to myself, "there's GOT to be a SAFER way to make cabinet doors than using the router!" then there's all the dust and all the noise...

after i finish the drawers, i'm going to start raising panels to make the drawer fronts - can't wait!!! the most boring part of the whole project will be biscuiting the melamine carcase pieces together!

Re: if i remember correctly...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Did Joanne, or Chris, or someone else post an account of the incident on WC or on another forum? If so, I am sorry I missed it. A half-blind challenge would make sense, but my memory is incomplete and faulty. I'm usually in sensory overload at these events, and a lot of important information escapes my notice.

Re: Um Frank, I hate to break the news...

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>oh, man...