Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Paul Kierstead

>"And question number two - am I going to gain something that I don't have with my current setup?"

What is your current setup *not* giving you? That right there is the crux; until you identify the weaknesses of your current setup (if it has any real weaknesses) for *YOUR* work, it will be extremely difficult to identify what you will get out of any new plane regardless of make or design.

Questions for you, Felix...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>What are you looking for in a new plane? Is the 4 & 4.5 not cutting it in some ways? Some more information would be great to help set you in the right direction...

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Felix B.

>Thanks Paul,

you're right, I should have mention what I am looking for - good catch.

I can put it this way: ocasional tear-outs and ocasional jitter marks.

It's obvious that in 8 out of 10 times these things caused by the skill level and not the equipment.

What lead me to consider the LA smoother was using a block plane on some ocasions... Whenever I use a block plane, I feel that it cuts much smoother compared to the other planes. Since I sharpen all my blades the same way, the issue of some blades being sharper then others should not be effecting my judgement.

Felix

Gain?

Hoa Dinh in Alameda

>question number two - am I going to gain something that I don't have with my current setup?

That's a tough question. I don't know the real answer to that. But I can tell you my story.

For bench planes, I had a #4 and a #5, old but nicely restored and tuned. They were all I needed in terms of bench planes.

But what frustrated me the most was the setup. It just took too much time to find the "perfect" one. And when it was time to refresh the blade, I lost the "perfect" setup.

Also, I essentially got stuck with the 45 degree cutting angle. I know, there are the back bevel thingy but it is more pain.

So, I decided to switch over to bevel-up planes. Veritas planes fit nicely.

Setting up the plane to cut thick or thin shavings is now less than a minute affair. I currently have the BU jack and the BU smoother and three blades (25, 38, and 45 degrees). Switching or honing the blade in the middle of a planing section is no longer something that I dread. All these encourage me to use hand tools (vs power tools) whenever possible.

That's my story, and I stick to it!

-- Hoa

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Jonathan Kaplan (OR)

>Felix,

There are a couple reasons your block plane may be giving you better results in some cases. The most obvious is that, if you use it less often, and/or only call on it when you get tear-out, the blade may in fact be sharper. If that's not it, then we're down to a couple of possibilities: the smaller size is permitting you to focus on the local grain direction direction; it is a low-angle block plane (is it?) and the wood you are planing responds better to low-angle cutting than high angle (some do!); it's smaller profile makes it easier to skew and get a skewing cut. Other, more experienced people will no doubt have more to add.

I don't own any of LV bevel-up planes, though, like anyone who reads these boards, I've heard nothing but great things about them. My set up, such as it is, consists of an LN #4, and, when I get tear-out etc with that, I move to a shop-made high-angle bevel-up small smoothing plane (effective cutting angle is about 60-65 degrees, give or take), card-scrapers, or my LN low-angle block plane, depending on the wood. If I were purchasing one of the LVs, it would be the bevel-up smoother with an extra high-angle blade (50 degree), since that is currently a weakness in my set up. But if you are getting good results using a block plane, figure out what it is doing well that the other planes aren't, and go from there. If the answer is "getting into small areas of reversed grain," then it is likely already the right answer.

Does that makes sense? Again, people with more experience will likely chime in...

jk

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>I think LV came up with my the original BUS design and after awhile decided to make the "heavy" version in a smoother, jack and jointer size.

I still don't think they are that "heavy" when you compare them to some of the Bevel down designs but they are "heavier" then the previous BU planes they made.

This is a guess but it sounds like they went for some Canadian Beers one day after work and decided to rethink the design, put a fatter sole on it with a thicker blade, and remove the option to shoot with it

Cheers

Dan C

Good points, Jonathan

Felix B.

>>There are a couple reasons your block plane may be giving you better results in some cases... True, those are good reasons.

However ...getting into small areas of reversed grain - when I thought about it - that's the actual cause of my frustration. It irritates the hell out of me especially after you got blade sharpened, tuned the opening, and made see-through shavings by planing scraps... Thank you for answering my question!

Does that makes sense?

Jonathan, it makes perfect sense!

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Derek

>The heavy smoother, jointer and jack all use the same blades - a useful feature if you get them all and spare blades.

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish)

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Derek,

I find it hard to keep up with the LV line. I checked tehe webpage and it looks like they have an army of Bevel Up planes.

Personally, i am holding out for the "medium to light" smoother in a 2 3/8" width with the 7/16" blade which is supposed to be even BETTER then the LV BUS Heavy smoother. I am gonna be a Beta tester too ;)

Have a nice weekend

Dan Clermont

Another one?

Felix B

>When is that comming out?

Or is it a question for Rob Lee?

You've been skunked, Felix *LINK*

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I think Dan's referring to the plane below. Be sure to click on the "click here for more information" link.


The next bevel up plane from Lee Valley - um hm

Re: Another one?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Felix,

Sorry to have gotten your hopes up. But I was kidding as I truly don't understand the purpose of the LV BUS other then LV thought they could do better with a heavier version which is not capable of shooting.

Personally, I am a Bevel down fan and although I do own a Bevel up plane which I like it does not compare to my Bevel down boys IMO

Good Luck,

Dan Clermont

Re: Questions about LA planes (... a bit longish) *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>"Currently Lee Valley has several LA planes and I am a bit confused when it comes to their purpose. Since I don't do much of the hand jointing, I am not looking at LA jointer. Three planes that I am curious about are LA Jack, LA Smoother, and Bevel-Up smoother".

"My current surface prep work is done by #4 and #4 1/2 Stanleys ...So far I am leaning toward the bevel-up smoother with an extra LA (25 degrees) blade".

"I should have mention what I am looking for ...I can put it this way: ocasional tear-outs and ocasional jitter marks"

Hi Felix

Without going over ground already discussed, such as why you want to buy a LV BU plane, or whether these are better choices over (say) the LN range, I thought I'd just give you my opinion about the questions you raised.

Firstly, all three (LAS, BUS and LAJ) can perform well as smoothers. I don't think that information is really helpful to you. Secondly, you should look at what you aleady use for clues to the type of smoother you prefer:

The LAS is similar to a #4, while the BUS is more akin to a #4-1/2. Which do you use most?

Both planes are able to use perform with an infinite number of cutting angles (just use a different blade), but - frankly - I would not consider using a LA blade in the BUS. This is a dedicated smoother, and in my world this means smoothing mainly hardwoods and especially those with interlinked grain. I like the extra weight as it brings momentum to the job. Anyway, I only use it with a 50 degree bevel blade (i.e. 62 degree cutting angle).

The LAS has wider application than the BUS insofar as it can be run on its side on a shooting board. Therefore LA and HA blades make sense here. There is no downside to the LAS - its lower weight is a matter of personal preference. It will perform as well as the BUS, but lacks the latter's weight and momentum, so requires more effort (downward pressure) on the user's part. On the other hand, it has more "feel". I did a more detailed comparison in the article linked below.

There is one other downside to the LAS (as touched on by my namesake, Derek), that is, the BUS shares blades with the BUJ and the LAJ, so if you acquire these planes as well, you automatically increase your "library" of blades. The LAS shares with no other plane (to my knowledge) and so you need to plan for this.

Now none of the above has to do with whether the LV BU planes are the better choices on the market. That decision is yours.

Regards from Perth

Derek


BUS Review

You got me Dan :) Thanks to Bill for the Link!

Felix B.

>

Thanks guys!

Felix B.

>I sincerely appreciate each and everyone of you taking time to answer my questions!

Many interesting points were mention during this short discussion - another way to proof that there is no simple answer :~)

Derek, that's a helluva review you've done! I am going to take it home and make myself a cup of tea to go over your report... Based on the points you mentioned in your post I now lean more toward the LAS since I use the #4 more often than 4.5 at this time and keep BUS on my wish list for now.

As far as whether the LV BU planes are better choice on the market - I'll have to try them in order to find out (Not that this is a question).

Again, thanks to everyone for valuable info!

Cheers,

Felix