Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Guy A - In Ohio

>My limited understanding is that it uses more of the full width of the plane blade, and not the same small area of the blade over and over. I have noticed that my blade stays sharper longer. But I'm no expert!!

Guy

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point? *LINK*

Paul Kierstead

>Well, the skew (and it really is a skew) will actually decrease the effective cutting angle, which should be nice on end-grain. However, according to Jeff Gormon the primary advantage is reduction of Skitter.

I do know that skewing a plane when planing endgrain definitely helps *me*.


http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/slewtables/slewindex.htm

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Their is no point in a ramped shooting board as far as I am concerned.

The angle is so slight it really ain't gonna make a difference

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

dennis mcdonaugh

>Its not about the cut, but about evening out the wear on the plane blade. A straight shooting board wears the blade in the same spot. If you work primarily in 3/4" stock all the wear is in that spot. By ramping the bed, you get more use of a 1 1/2-2" plane blade by spreding out the area cutting the wood. In my opinion, the little you gain in blade usage is not worth the extra trouble to make the board.

Timely topic

Neal (San Jose)

>I just made a new shooting board last night, and ramped the thing. It works well, but I don't think I'll go to that trouble again. I have a LapSharp, so touching up blades is now a non-issue. The ramp can't be more than one degree, which doesn't spread the wear out very much.

The only advantage I can see is that the planing forces push the stock down and into the fence better than my old straight shooting board, but nothing a firm grip on the stock doesn't do as well.

One thing I did do that I'm happy about is I used a tapered sliding dovetail to attach the fence. Now, when the fence wears, I'll just tap it over a tad and shave off the end with a wide plane like a jointer, and I have a new end on the fence to reduce chipping.

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>But a ramped board wears the blade more quickly in the middle, and less quickly to either side. If it were not ramped, at least the edge would wear the same amount all the way across the width of whatever you were planing. This would give you a more consistent cut, until you changed board widths. A ramped board, on the other hand, would give a rougher cut on the top side of the stock face at one end, and on the bottom side of the stock face on the other end. That would just drive me nuts.

In any case, we all need more planes, or at least an excuse therefor. So, why not use a narrow plane with narrow stock, and a wider plane with wider stock? On the other hand, to justify that #8, all you have to do is make your ramp steep enough that you run out of blade on the #7 before you get all the way to the other end of the face you are shooting.

Another issue: For shooting the ends of really wide boards (or wide glued up panels) you will surely run out of blade width before you get all the way across the panel if you have any significant slope to your ramp. Well, I guess that's just an excuse to make another shooting board.

Maybe we should all go out and make shooting boards with adjustable ramps. We could even attach a programmable calculator to tell us the optimum slope for each thickness and width of stock and blade width. Even better, if both ends of the ramp were adjustable, we could drop the whole thing when part of the blade gets dull, to the same effect as moving the fence on a power jointer. Maybe the calculator could also count strokes and advise you when the blade needed sharpening. And flash a big yellow warning sign: "Steep Grade. #8s Use Low Gears." :^J

KISS

Shooting Boards side-by-sde

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>I tend to use my ramped board all the time, but I was curious and pulled out my old quick-n-dirty (MDF over Melamine) flat shooting board for a comparison.

This whole affair involved a piece of pine endgrain and a LV LA Jack with 37 degree cutting angle.

This is what I noted:

1. The quality of the cuts appeared the same to my eye.

2. Both appeared to cut with the same degree of ease (at the blade end).

3. The ramped board was, nevertheless, more comfortable to use.

4. One reason may have been that the timber was held more securely on the ramped board.

5. I expected the angled blade to enter the timber with slightly less force. It did not do so, but the LA Jack I used is a heavy plane and its momentum may have disguised this. A lighter plane would be more sensitive here. So I tried again with my Stanley #62. No difference.

Bottom line - both produce the same quality of cut, but the ramped board was easier to use. Your mileage may vary.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

David Charters (Durham, NC)

>Thanks for the comments folks. Paul, I checked out your link and it said: "It is often useful to slew a plane so that the edge makes an angle with the track of its movement." This is not the case with a plane sliding on the ramp. In the ramp case the edge makes the typical 90 deg angle with the track of it's movement, so no cutting angle reduction is seen. It's like the difference between pushing a skewed plane across a board (angle reduction) and pushing a plane straight (not skewed) but diagonaly across a board (no angle reduction).

As for blade wear, some of the shooting boards I have read up on use a 5 deg ramp. I did a little calculation, and with a 5 deg ramp it would only spread the blade wear to 0.38% more of the blade. That is a tiny bit. I can understand it being easier to use a ramped shooting board, gravity works in your favor. So far that is the only compelling reason. What ramp angles have you all seen?

Re: Shooting Boards side-by-sde

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The ramped board was, nevertheless, more comfortable to use.

Maybe that's because your fancy, ramped board is left handed, while the utility board is wrong handed? At least that's what I see in the photos. Also, it appears that there is a difference in the distances between the fences and the front edge of the bench, which might make a difference in comfort. In the photos, I also note that the utility board appears to be mounted in the face vise, which is an obstruction to comfortable use, to say the least.

It's a beautiful board, and that of itself would make it more pleasant to use.

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Paul Kierstead

>You know what, you are right. It is not often I get things in that area wrong (spatial things, not woodworking; I often get woodworking wrong :)), but you are quite right; it is like pushing across the board.

But, I think it does reduce skitter, by presenting the blade at an angle to the board. OTOH, I will have to give that some thought.

Of course, with the small angles you are quite right; it is probably academic.

Re: Shooting Boards side-by-sde

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>William

Both boards are set up for right-handed use, both were clamped in a vise when used, and both have the same width runway. The pics you are refering to came from my picture library. I did snap a picture of the set up as used but they were not as clear. Here they are:

Regards from Perth

Derek

As I understand it

Steve Kubien

>The skewing effect created by using a ramped board significantly reduces the effective cutting angle, enough that you don't 'need' a low-angle blade to cut the end grain. See Leonard Lee's sharpening book for a good discussion on cutting angles.

My 2 cents and you may be getting ripped off!

Steve Kubien

and another thing...

Steve Kubien

>I am not saying you NEED a low-angle plane to trim end-grain. I know lots of craftsmen made/make lots of stuff without new-age technology. However, you must admit that there are a lot of people who swear by that approach. No need to start that debate again. Move along. Nothing to see here. Go about your business.

Steve Kubien

maybe it's the placebo effect...

David Charters (Durham, NC)

>As mentioned in other parts of this thread, the ramped shooting board does not reduce the effective cutting angle because the cutting edge is still 90 deg from the direction of travel. I wish I didn't know that, then a ramped shooting board might work much better for me. Ingorance is bliss (coincidentally I tend to be quite happy).

Re: Shooting Boards side-by-sde

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>A-Ha. The second set of photos clears it up a lot. So, my proposals don't hold up. I was just grasping as straws.

While I'm at it, I'll grasp at another one: Low angle planes, because of their lower sides, do not sit as stably on their sides, and there's no place behind the frog to push with your thumb. Therefore, I think you need to push with the tote. To get around this problem, dedicated shooting board planes are designed with tilted handles, or sausages. Since the side of its chute is lower, especially before the toe gets to the fence, it seems like it would be more difficult to keep your plane properly registered on your "utility" board. What do you think, does this idea hold any water? I'm speculating, since I don't use my 164 on the chute board and I don't even have a low angle jack for testing.

Re: Shooting Boards side-by-sde

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Hi William

The LV LA Jack is tailor-made for shooting. Unlike my Stanley #62 or the LN LA Jack plane, this plane has in-built finger grips (circular depressions on the sides of the body) for use so that it may be held securely on its side. You do not push with the tote. If the Stanley and LN #62 are both a #5-size, the LV LA Jack is a #5-1/2 size. This means that it is larger and heavier. It carries significantly more momentum into the cut. Push it forward and along the runway fence, and it is like a railway train on tracks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Norman (Metcalfe, Ont.)

>Interesting topic...

In my opinion, the difference is very subtle.

Having the plane track in a straight line but skewed

and having the plane track diagonally across at the same angle

still presents the plane iron to the wood at an angle.

This is the point of skewing..

Having said this , I always thought the reason for the ramped

shooting board was to have even wear on the plane iron

across its width. It is true, however, that the increased range in width is very small due to typically short shooting board lengths.

Norman

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

Bob Fawcett

>My shooting board is flat, no ramp. It is setup to cut on both sides.

Shooting on the other side of the board evens out wear sometimes. Maybe I don't do enough shooting, but blade wear on one side versus the other is not an issue for me.

Re: Ramped Shooting Boards... What's the point?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Interesting, Derek. I didn't realize (I guess I forgot) that it has those features. I'm going to have to look much more closely at that plane the next time I get close to a Lee-Valley booth (next month).

Evening out wear?

Derek

>So if evening out the wear is the issue, wouldn't it be better and simpler to add a spacer below the workpiece to lift it up 3/4" or so? This would truly spread out the blade wear and likely be much simler to make.

Re: Evening out wear? What about plywood?

Tom Ryan

>I suppose most of you all don't stoop so low as to use plywood, but the glue line is really hard on blades, and it doesn't take much of a slope to spread this effect out (just a slope of the thickness of one ply over the width should be a big help).