Problem with surface preparation

No expert, but...

Jonathan Kaplan (OR)

>Other people w/ more experience will no doubt chime in, but to start things off:

1) I can't imagine that it has *anything* to do w/ dragging the plane back -- insofar as that shortens edge life, it does so only in a *very* minor way.

Given that, I'll suggest a few things to check:

* Is the blade being held securely in the frog? If not, you may be experiencing some weird back-lash thing... Also worth checking the chip-breaker -- it is relatively flat, mating well with the blade, etc? If not, it might be moving around and messing up the blade projection...

* Is the plane's sole relatively flat? If it is *way* off, this might impact performance in weird ways.

* Are you rounding over the edge of the blade when sharpening? If you are, then the initial cutting might be getting done by left-over wire edges, etc., which decay rapidly...

* Is the blade a dud? Is it possible that it was over-heated when grinding at some point in its past? Or just came from the factory improperly hardened? If you don't know the history of the blade, this may be hard to tell, of course, but if all else fails, you can buy an aftermarket blade and see what difference it makes.

Good luck! As I said, I'm sure other people will chime in with more, better, and more detailed suggestions...

Best,

jk

Re: Problem with surface preparation

Dean J in MN

>Sam --

Is the blade actually dull when you can no longer cut? Can you feel or see the edge rolled over? If so, then you either have dud blade, or your edge is too weak for the task.

If the blade is still "sharp" when you pull it could it be that the plane is "skipping" the low portions and it seems like it is skating? Are you attacking the board at an angle at this stage of your surfacing? Straight along the length? Does the plane cut at any point in length?

-Dean

Re: Problem with surface preparation

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>It doth soundeth that your cutting iron does slip. For a hogging cut, set your chipbreaker away from the cutting edge (maybe 1/8") and tighten down thoroughly. Make sure there are no gaps between or betwixt your cutting iron and chipbreaker thus you must tune there. Also, do not back off your iron once depth is set or else you will haveth some backlash - the iron retracts to the point where it will not cut. Do this and she will cut

Doth I soundeth like Moxon?

Good info so far...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I can recommend not dragging the plane back across the work piece. I use to do this, and I broke myself of this habbit. My blades stay sharper longer now that I lift the plane between strokes. Oak is a hardwood and will wear blades quickly, all though not that fast.

I find it best when planing to keep the blade adjuster nut tight in the direction of blade extension (out of the mouth) not in blade retaction direction. This will keep it fron sneeking back into the plane.

Sounded more like a...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Moron than Moxon.

Jusk Kidding Jonathan...;^)

Re: Problem with surface preparation

Jim in Burlington On

>I'd bet you have two problems going on. The plane is not flat likely concave. Second I think the plane blade is not seating properly and moving around while your cutting it's getting pushed back up into the plane. Check the sole with a straight edge and with the blade removed if you have a small ruler check to see if there are high spots on your frog.

Agree

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>My first thought also was that the sole is concave, which would be typical if it's not been messed with. You can check this with a straight edge, as Jim said.

Now when the plane starts skipping, have you tried advancing the blade, and if so, what happens then? Does it go back to cutting normally for a while and repeat the problem you described, or is it dead dull after one planing set? This is a good test to see whether the blade is at fault.

Another issue is lateral adjust. Various weird things happen when the plane slips out of lateral adjust, or is never in lateral adjustment to start with. Keep this in mind.

One other thought. It's hard to figure out in the beginning whether the problem is you or the equipment, and if it is the equipment, how fundamental the problem really is--is it something real simple, or is the frog machining off. When I started out, I had one beater Stanley 605 (and I mean really beat), and one LN4. It was very useful to have one ready-to-go plane as a reference to what should be happening. Made tuning the 605 a lot more straightforward than it would have been, cause I knew what I was after. And the 605 made a fine plane, despite its outward appearance.

Wiley

Is it noticeably longer?

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>...not dragging the plane back across the work piece. I use to do this, and I broke myself of this habit. My blades stay sharper longer now that I lift the plane between strokes.

Is it really a noticeable difference? Doesn't seem intuitively to me that is should matter. But I'll believe you if you see a real difference.

Best, Ted

Re: Problem with surface preparation

paul womack

>After a minute or so, I resharpen. I use wet/dry paper on plate glass, stopping at 1200 grit paper. I don't strop.

Does it cut well again after the resharpen?

BugBear

Re: Problem with surface preparation

SamW

>Thanks for all of the responses! I look forward to checking into all of the specific things that were mentioned. To answer some of the questions:

I plane diagonally, closer to straight across in the early stages, and closer to parallel with the grain later on.

I have never tuned the plane in earnest, so I can't say how well the blade is seated. The blade sometimes gets out of lateral adjustment as I work. There is a slight hollow in the sole behind the mouth.

If I advance the blade, it does begin cutting again, but not nearly as well as at first

I have been setting the chip breaker very, very close to the edge.

Not so much with smaller planes...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Like smoothers up to say a 4 but, wider and heaver planes 4.5's and up. The differences I've noticed becomes realy apperant with 6's and up.

Please note: Most of planes I've noticed this with have the orginal Stanley irons, so this might make a difference with other peoples results.

Re: Problem with surface preparation

SamW

>When I went to "tune up" my plane, I noticed that the frog had been pushed back and was no longer square to the mouth. I could see daylight under one side of the blade. I moved the frog back into place. Now, the plane seems to perform much better. I was able to surface a board, both sides, without resharpening.

Thanks again for all of the helpful advice and tips.

Re: Agree

Steve Mackay

>OK, I'm reading this whole thread with baited breath and learning WAY too much ! Whats the " frog " ?

Re: Agree

Dan Donaldson

>Here is a picture of some frogs. It is the part of a bench plane where the blade beds. It usually moves back and forth to adjust the mouth opening.

Re: Agree

Steve Mackay

>Dan ; Thanks Buddy. Its the whole assembly shown ?

Re: Agree

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Yes, they show the whole frog assembly. Dan's photos show you the frog from the bottom (to the left) and the back (to the right). Here's a link to a good drawing, with all the parts listed:

Stanley B&G

Frog Link?

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Dan,

What's the www. to the picture of frogs that you posted? I looked for it on google, but couldn't find it. Nice piece of info is that.

Todd O.

Re: Frog Link?

Skip in Falls Church

>Hi Todd

The address in the pictures properties was: http://www.antique-used-tools.com/Bailey4_5FrogCompare.jpg

Skip

Thanks Skip

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>