Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Re: Diamond Paste *LINK*
William Duffield, on the Cohansey
>Diamond paste is readily available to amateur woodworkers, and at very reasonable prices. Click on the picture from Joel's online catalog to go directly to the prices at Tools for Working Wood. It's about $66, plus shipping, for a lifetime supply of 45, 15, 0.5 and 0.25 micon grits.
Re: Kanaban
Wendell @ Murphy, TX
>I think the Kanaban are too narrow at 2-3/8". That's exactly the width of a #4-1/2, #5-1/2, #6 or #7 blade and 1/4" narrower than a #8 blade. I think 3" would be the minimum. I also agree with Bill that if you use a jig like I do, 12" length is really nice. 9" would be ok but I would prefer longer. I am trying out diamond paste on 12" x 3" acrylic as my current sharpening system.
Wendell
Re: Diamond Paste
MikeW
>Yes, like I said, costs are negligable. Even for professionals.
Plate is too small. Instead try a 12" x 12" marble tile from the Borg sanded at 100 grit through a Performax for a couple passes. It roughs up the surface enough to hold the charge and is pretty darn flat.
I drilled a small hole and epoxied rubber feet like one will find on a small cutting board onto the bottom of a couple. They stack and don't take up much room and don't slide around too bad.
That said, I don't like the system. I think stones are quicker during edge tool use and actually require less clean up for both the tool and the stones.
Each to their own. You do know I reacted to the statement of Bill's, don't you. By now everyone probably knows what buttons of mine to push to get a reaction. Unfounded statements and perjoratives/belittling others or their choices. Yep. Does it every time.
Take care. Mike
Re: Diamond Paste
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I think most of us, having followed Bill's adventures for quite a while, such as making CRM (or some such) steel chisels from scratch, tend to think there's very little he says that's unfounded.
That said, I don't know that we need more self-appointed police around here, or anywhere else for that matter. We'll give you the same breaks to make the occassional gaffe, too.
Pam
Re: Kanaban
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>Guess what, you're allowed to turn the blade 90°. :)
Pam
Re: Diamond Paste
mikew
>"...Snip...
That said, I don't know that we need more self-appointed police around here, or anywhere else for that matter. We'll give you the same breaks to make the occassional gaffe, too. "
You know, for some reason we seem to be at odds more often than not, Pam. I don't know exactly what it was in my previous post that gave you this impression of me--that is, if you were applying the "police" thing to me.
Seems to me that you are reacting to my post here concerning William in much the same way I was reacting to his and Bill's posts.
William said something he shouldn't have higher up. I reacted to that. Is that wrong of me? Of him? Or what?
Bill on the other hand made a statement about the OP's choice of stones that said they were an inferior sharpening method. He had not used them and thus I said I didn't think he was therefore qualified to make such a judgement. Was that improper of me? How about of him?
In your opinion, should I not say anything when people either put someone else and their decision in a piss poor light?
I tell you what, Pam. If you say what I said or did was not proper and that what they did was and I'll make sure to change the error of my ways.
Thank you,
Mike
Re: Diamond Paste
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>Mike, there are ways to say things that are not quite so aggressive. Why not simply ask the poster of a message that offends what s/he meant to say?
Pam
Re: Diamond Paste
mikew
>Agreed. There are more tactful ways of saying things.
Please point out what I said that was not tactful. Sarcastic a tad when I said "Geez" I admit.
Was this aggressive or overly critical:
"That said, I don't know that we need more self-appointed police around here, or anywhere else for that matter."
There seems to be a tad bit of hypocrisy going on. When posters who may have been around longer than I say things that are definitely aggressive, dismissive, when their so called apologies have belittling and condescending statements in them and the people who would think I am being aggressive or what ever don't say anything...?
Look. I don't want to pick a fight. God knows I'm too tired. Just show me where I wrote something inappropriate to William or Bill and I will be glad to apologize without attempted wit or sarcasm.
But I do feel better that I'm being cut some slack for my lack of tact and aggressive posting. So thank you.
Mike
I've used both.....
Tim of Livermore
>Some may recall that I also partook of an adventure down diamond paste lane.
I now use Shapton Hippos and Professionals.
The diamonds will cut very very very very very fast. But I find that you'll need 2, maybe 3 different materials for the lapping plates. Cast iron for medium grits....equivalents of medium waterstones....acrylic for extra coarse diamond grits and annealed carbon steel for polishing grits. In general, I think you want softer plate material as the diamonds get larger/more coarse.
I primarily gave up on diamonds because of contamination issues. Once a lapping plate had been contaminated with a more coarse grit diamond, that was the end of the lapping plate. Hence.....0.25 micron polishing plates became coarse plates astonishingly fast. I had a dickens of a time try to clean the diamond off once contaminated. My guess is that they tend to partially embed in the lapping plate material...making removal difficult.
Also, the diamond plates aren't very forgiving if you accidentally lift the edge or roll the edge into the plate while sharpening. You scratch the plate badly and damage the edge badly.
Tim
Re: Rhetorical Questions?
paul womack
>whereas "cheap" in my opinion is not something to strive for.
I guess that depends wether you're taking meanings 1 or 2, or lean towards meaning 3,4,5.
BugBear (in etymological mood)
Re: diamonds and oilstones
les winter
>I read somewhere about using diamond paste on black hard arkansas stones. Has anyone here tried this and what grit diamond was used?
thanks
Les
J-O-E-L !
Adam Cherubini
>Schwim,
I usually don't respond to posts from people who don't grace us with their e-mail addresses, but....
I totally hear where you are coming from with the cheap or unprofessional nature of SS. But I think there is a remedy if you wish to try again, but we may need Joel’s help.
BTW, I tried Paul’s 1000 grit Shapton this weekend at Pennsbury (we have a new joiner in the shop and I’m just thrilled about it BTW.) I had never used one before and I was impressed with it. But I’m not convinced it was faster cutting than SS and it seemed a bit messier. I could be wrong. It had the feel of worn 220 Si-C but left a finer finish. I guess that means its faster.
Back to SS:
I’ve been using and liking Joel’s micros abrasives. These are superior “papers” (its not paper. Its not mylar either. I’m told its the material mylar is made from.) Anyway, the grit is bonded better to the film. So you know how your paper “wears out” fast? Really what’s happening is the loosely bonded grit is coming off and making the paper feel more aggressive. The paper is actually designed to be whatever grit it is after that happens. Suffice it to say, this doesn’t happen with the 3M film backed stuff Joel sells.
I prefer the PSA backed films. The PSA sticks beautifully and comes off in one piece. In use, its like a dreamy stone- no slipping, no tearing, nada. For a couple bucks of film, I think this is worth a try. Everybody sharpens differently, but my sheets held up really well.
But to make this system really cool for folks like Schwim (whoever he or she is), I think we need Joel to supply us with corian or glass plates (corian would work fine and he could use scraps from sink cutouts) 1/2 inch thick sized 1/4 inch all around bigger than 1/3 of a full sheet. Then he could web link some plans for making a nice traditional box (I can help with this part, Joel). Each plate could have 2 grits on it.
I think this would make SS much nicer. It’s a cheap way to go. You could keep very traditional techniques and its not so messy that you couldn’t do it on your bench (I don’t).
Adam
Re: J-O-E-L !
Joel
>Adam, thanks for your support - but where am I supposed to get lots of corian sink cutouts from? Should I fake it? and make corian shaped cutouts and then resaw them into slabs?
my own lapping glass plates came free of charge from the local hardware store. He had piles of scrap and all I needed was a few 3" wide bits. Okay my scraps are not all square and pretty but the price could not be beat.
Re: Kanaban
Wendell @ Murphy, TX
>Not very easily if you want to use a honing jig.
Wendell
Re: Kanaban
Dean J in MN
>
Not very easily if you want to use a honing jig.
Get a second Kanaban (they are pretty cheap) or a scrap of wood the same thickness and let your honing jig's wheel ride on that... :)
-Dean
Re: Plans? *LINK*
William Duffield, on the Cohansey
>We aint got no plans! We don't need no steenkin' plans!
You did a lot to teach me that concept, Adam. And, it just so happens that I put together an answer to the container need, following your precepts, and posted it, even before reading this plea. I think this is what they call "just in time" supply chain?
PIctures and Instructions can be found here. You'll have to follow the thread for the instructions and some more photos.
I'm a great fan of dumpster diving for substrate material. Three is an inexhaustable source of supply behind cabinet shops, marble and tile shops, glass shops, etc. in every medium to large city in industrialized world. Not all of the substrates are workable with woodworking tools, and not all the substrates are optimum for loose abrasives, but I don't think there is any real need to beg Joel to carry coals to Newcastle. A dumpster was also the original source of the non-stick pads that get stuck to either the bottom of the substrate or the box.
a solution.....
bill tindall
>A 12 x 12 x 1/2" piece of very flat acrylic from MSC is but $12. That makes (after easy sawing) 4- 3 x 12 substrates for sticking mylar to. What could be cheaper than that, and it won't break like glass?
Re: a solution.....
Wendell @ Murphy, TX
>Just a quick note about MSC. I recently bought a piece of 3/4" x 12" x 12" of acrylic from them. I was shocked when shipping was almost as expensive as the piece of plastic. It was still only about $25 but I didn't like not knowing the shipping costs until it will was shipped. The sad thing is that I have bought plastic sheet stock from a supplier in Dallas at reasonable prices with execellent service. If you live near a big city, it is probably more economical to find a local supplier.
Wendell
Joel's new product
Adam Cherubini
>What if I don't want to go dumpster diving? What if I don't have any tool that can efficiently cut any of the materials I want?
I think this product would fill a niche that would allow SS to be taken seriously. It would be nice if someone like Joel could provide a person with everything they need. The neat thing about Joel's website is that its more than a catalog. You could go there, get what you need and learn how to use it at the same time.
The SS "stone" is something no one else is offering. The lapping plates available elsewhere are all unfortunatley sized, IMHO. The fact that you get to make your own box ala William appeals to the DYI side of us, while in no way effecting the usability of the product.
Using scrap material would keep the price down. I think this would be very popular. Honestly, I didn't get a chance to read the thread above, so I don't know how all of you feel or if anyone suggested this already, but I would say something like this would be the cadillac of SS sharpening. I'd like to suggest to Joel that he have different sizes of "stones" to suit different preferences and budgets. I think the sizes could be called, "Sedan deVille" and "Coup deVille". Big and really big. I don't know much about marketing, but I'd say you'd get a lot of positive association here. "Honey, I'm getting rid of those no good rice burning American job taking waterstones. I just ordered an american-made "Scary Sharp Sedan deville stone tm".
What do you guys think? Its cool, right?
Adam
P.S. For you miserable cynics, I have no business relationship with Joel whatsoever. I'm not shilling (whatever that means), I'm lobbying!
