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Planing Contest Rules

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Re: Planing Contest Rules

#26

Re: Planing Contest Rules

Dick Darin

>Thank you for your thoughts Ian.

The contest will take place during a 10 day woodworking show and I understand that significant prizes will be awarded. Having seen people bicker over a tin cup I think the rules have to be tight and fair. The contest is intended to be fun and in a way a sales pitch for hand tool use (Evangelical?). Perhaps I'm overreaching trying to achieve one set of rules to cover novice and expert but I have some time to get it together and besides it's a interesting challenge.

Dick

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#27

Re: Listen to Frank! (LONG!)

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Don't get so tied up in your rulebook that you take the fun out of it. Especially, don't make it so competitive for the youngsters, because they won't be able to understand the rules, anyhow, so they won't understand what it took to win or to lose. You want to teach them woodworking, not how to be competitive, I hope. You can reduce the pressure on yourself by making sure that the value of the prizes is only nominal, or better yet, a little tongue-in-cheek. In the real world, the shavings end up on the floor, and it's the board that is left that is important. (Well, sometimes, my shavings are used instead of ribbon to decorate a present.) Another reason for an "attitude adjustment" is that in your envisioned contest, the contestants have no control over the condition of the surface from which they are going to take the shaving. The board's surface changes as it is used up. Each pass gets the blade closer to or farther from knots. You might even run into a bit of bird shot. The jointer that prep's the board for the next participant gets duller with each pass. Internal stresses are releaved as the board is worked, resulting in the board moving, which will affect the next participant. Some of your participants will be trained to smooth against a stop; others between vise dogs. Some will be trained to plane on a higher bench; some on a lower bench. Some will be used to sharpening on a machine or other setup that they cannot bring with them. Wood is a natural material. The only way to get around that is to plane MDF instead of wood. You cannot design a fair contest. If you insist on making the rules more complicated instead of less so, at least consider the following: Don't limit the competition to Bailey style bench planes. Since it is a smoothing contest, the board should be wider than the blade. Therefore, the thickness of the shaving at the edge should go to zero if the participant follows David Charlesworth's recommendations for a cambered smoother blade. If he don't follow DC's philosophy, then he had better have an alternative sharpening method that doesn't leave tracks. You are going to take off points for tracks and tearout, aren't you? You can argue rules ad infinitum and there will be people there who consider arguing about rules to be a noble sport. Don't give them the opportunity to waste their time and everyone else's time doing that instead of working wood and sharing woodworking skills.

Here are some alternate competetions/demonstrations that might be more interesting (in no particular order).

A. Bring your own set of planes, scrub, jack, jointer and smoother or whatever works best for you. Start with a rough sawn board. Make one surface flat and smooth. Nominate a panel of judges to decide which is best.

B. Start with a disassembled Bailey in a box and a prepped board in a vise. Time to assemble and take a full shaving. For more fun, you could open this contest up to low angle jacks and wooden smoothers.

C. Match joint two boards. Measure fit of joint, including minimum and maximum spring in middle. Feeler gauges and measured pressure from one clamp in the middle should be enough to demonstrate flatness.

D. Two stones, no jigs, dull blade. Time to get an invisible edge.

E. Using a jack, straight edge, square, marking gauge and knife, four square a rough sawn board. Time to completion wins, with tight limits on squareness and loose limits on smoothness.

F. Contestants brings his own tool box. Start with a pair of four square boards. Chop a mortise in the center of the edge of one. Cut a matching tenon in the end of the other. Demonstrate coplanar faces, assembly and disassembly with hand pressure (You should be able to put it together by hand, no mallet, no vise, but it should not fall apart due to gravity or even shaking the joint) and tightly fitting shoulders (no visible gaps at surface).

G. Contestant brings his own rip saw and jointer. Provide saw horses/saw benches and rough boards. Time to rip measured board and plane edge straight, flat and square. The results of this could be used for C. above.

H. Contestant brings his own crosscut saw. Time to crosscut a rough cut board.

I. Contestant brings his own tool set. Crosscut a prepared board. Judge for squareness in both directions and lack of chipout on edges. Results could be used for dovetailing contest.

J. Contestant brings his own tool set. Start with two prepared boards. Layout and cut a matching dovetail. Time results. Dovetail must be structurally sound.

K. Smoothing a gnarly board. All contestants bring their favorite nightmare board, something that they would use for testing the tuning of their own go-to smoother, of a certain size range, but sound with no knots, no shakes, no checks. Every contestant gets one of the boards by the luck of the draw, and smooths it. Then the guy who brought the board gets to try to make it better. One of them gets eliminated. Swap boards at random among the remaining half of the contestants and repeat, until only one is left. You will need a panel of judges, preferably retired umpires.

L. French polish one face of a short length of Borg construction grade 2x4.

M. Start with two prepared boards, two butt hinges and twelve brass screws. Judge on skill, with time only as a tie-breaker, for flush mortises, even gaps open and closed, no binding, etc. Contestant provides all other tools. Butt mortise planes, routers, chisels, and even routahs allowed, but for routahs, contestant must provide his own extension cord, find the outlet, lay out the cord and put it away again, put on and take off eye, ear and respiratory protection while the clock is running, and hinges with radiused corners are disallowed. We only want to make the contest fair.

N. Apply a decorative ogee (or thumbnail, or whatever) molding to the edge of a prepared board. Any tools you want to use, but the same handicap as above applies to routahs, and furthermore, all scalloped surfaces must be smoothed. Sandpaper is also allowed, but all manufacturer's recommended safety instructions must also be followed. To make it more interesting, and to give handicap points to those using hollows and rounds or a combination plane instead of a complex molding plane, reveal the specifications of the molding only at the start of the contest. If you want to teach the routah guys a lesson, specify arcs that are other than 90°, or that have unequal radii. Unless they brought their own machine shop with them, that'll blow them right out of the water. Judge on shape confirmation to specs, consistency and smoothness of surface, with time to complete only for tie breaker.

If you want to make your contests even more fun, bring in a couple of ringers e.g., Frank K. or Rob C. or Adam C. or even Norm A.), but don't tell anyone else beforehand who they will be competing against, or who will be heckling or cheering their efforts from the sidelines. The idea is to share and compare skills, tool sets, methodologies, etc. not to determine a winner. The only reason to make it a "contest" is to get everyone to pay attention and to get as much participation as possible, instead of just watchers.

Offer some consolation prizes or trophies. For example, our sailing club has a perpetual "turtle trophy" for whoever managed to turn his boat over the most times during the year. It's an upside down, busted rudder, with engraved brass plates attached every year. You might want to offer something like: "I found this at a flea market. Its got a bit too much rust to tell for sure, but I think it's a Type 19 Bailey bench plane. Might be a Victor. Should clean up just fine. The winner gets to take it home, make it work, and either write a review, post it on the forum of his choice and vigorously defend the review, or, as part of our ongoing handicapping system, he may instead elect to bring it back next year and use it in the competition."

Since you probably will not be able to find the time or the participants to do all the real world contests you and the rest of us can imagine, you should offer a proposed list well before the event, with a request for serious entrants. That way, you will know ahead of time for which contests you will actually need to schedule time for and prepare raw materials and tools and line up ringers. Make sure you tell your entrants at least a week before the get-together which proposed contests will actually be run. That way, they won't have to tune and tote a bunch of tools that they won't actually use. Also, let them know what kind and condition of wood they will be using. For joinery, I would suggest kiln dried board run tulip poplar, at least in this part of the world, because it's pretty cheap, fairly consistent and works well. For smoothing, you might want to make it a bit more difficult and at least use some curly maple. In any case, they will need to know how much set and how many TPI they will need in their chosen saws, and maybe the cutting angle of their chosen smoothers.

I hope it's clear enough what parts of this I wrote with tongue in cheek and what parts I am dead serious about.

One other thing: Don't allow some ringer or Dad or Mom to set up the tools for the kids. Let them adjust the planes, etc., themselves, or let them choose to use any tool used by any other kid participating in the contest. Teaching hero-worship is OK, but what we want to stress is self-sufficiency.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#28

Re: Planing Contest Rules

Frank D.

>Hi Dick,

Just a little more feedback to give you some food for thought.

Someone mentioned that 2" ws a little wide. I agree, 1 3/4" means a #4 can easily attain full-width.

I still think that dividing the thickness by the area is the fairest system if you want area to count without disqualifying small shavings. Don't forget, lowest score wins (don't forget to bring a calculator either). This way a competitor that has a shaving twice as big as another competitor will have the same score if his shaving is twice the thickness. Sounds fair. Your system of squares sounds like a good way to calculate area, just make the squares big enough so it doesn't take you half an hour to calculate the area. Don't worry about accuracy of the system too much (if the squares are big), you can leave a little room for luck. True champions are always lucky anyways ;) .

Another thing you might want to do for the junior competition (or the categories that you think might have trouble producing shavings) is to have them produce an edge shaving, so reduce the width of the board to 7/8" or even 3/4". A four-foot board I think is more than enough for the juniors. Don't forget that jointing between competitors will get more complicated as the board gets longer (and as the competitors get more inexperienced).

Don't worry too much about a tie. This rarely happens. What I do for a tie-breaker is like was suggested above: have a piece of dificult wood (pupleheart is tough to plane and inexpensive), the largest shaving wins. In case two contestants produce a full shaving, thinnest shaving wins. In 3 competitions so far I've never had to use the system.

Another thing to consider: I like the fact that most of our prizes were given for participation. Draw names in a hat. We gave one prize for the thinnest shaving in the final, period. This emphasizes participation, and you will probably have more participants because people will feel less intimidated.

HTH,

Frank

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#29

Woodworking Olympics! Broke a sweat just reading!

Luke Herzberg

>

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#30

Real World Skills

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>What I like about your contests, William, is the emphasis on skills we actually use. Trying to produce a thin 2" wide shaving is a skill that just does not come up in real life. If I were smoothing a 2" wide surface I would take at least two passes or maybe one on each side and finish down the middle. My favorite smoother has an iron that isn't 2" wide. I can't remember when I last had to edge join boards 2" boards.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#31

That's a keeper!

Frank D.

>I like those ideas! I kept them in a Word file for future reference. Even without the contest (I'd definitely have trouble finding contestants for most events) those ideas would make great demonstrations. Here in Quebec as soon as you start giving a hand-tool demo at a wood show a lot of people stop and ask questions; it took me a whole day once to dovetail four small boards together!

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#32

Re: That's a keeper!

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Of course, that's way, way too many events to consider for any one get-together, but if you offer choices, you might be able to put together one or two or even three events, with the possibility of a different event next year. Maybe some people will start to get ready for a new challenge for next time, if they have fun this time.

OTOH, a tour-de-force, highly structured, highly esoteric event isn't likely to win over a lot of Normites at Dick's really big show, any more than belt sander races are going to get a TimeSaver onto the floor of very many Neanderthal shops.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#33

Re: Planing Contest Rules

Paul M. in San Diego

>Hi Dick,

Late into the pool as always...

I've been to a couple of Kezurou-kai meets which are the Japanese plane shaving contests. The rules are quite simple...

o You have all day to create your entry (no time limit)

o All entries must be full length and width of the board. A standard board size is used to make this universal.

o The thinnest shaving that is full-length and width is the winner.

o The shaving is measured in 3 places (end, middle, other end), and the largest measurement of the 3 is taken.

I've been to a couple of these, and so far I haven't seen any ties. My shavings always looked like shim wedges in comparison to the winners, so I've remained a spectator. ;-)

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#34

Re: Planing Contest Rules

Joshua Clark

>Hi Dick,

Our local Woodcraft has a hand plane competition once a year. I participated two years ago, but missed last year. I'll be back this year for sure. the contest uses a seven foot long, two inch wide plank of tight white pine. The grain is very tight and a very thin shaving can be taken. The rules the use are simple: contestants have one hour to submit a full-length, full width shaving. Each shaving is measured in five places using some sort of a drop-micrometer (The Starrett reps were there making the measurements) and the winner is the contestant with the smallest average thickness. Requiring that the shavings be full-with and full-length takes the guess-work out of estimating how wide a shaving is. I believe this is similar to the rules used in Japan, where such contests are more common.

While making a super-thin shaving might not have any real-world usefulness, tuning a hand plane to take a sub-thou shaving is a real learning experience. In order to get the full-length, full-width shaving the plane has to be super flat and the blade very sharp. I think I wound up re-sharpening every four or five shavings as the performance dropped off.. It was definitely interesting.

Here's a link to some pictures from last year: Pictures here

-Josh-

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#35

But..but...

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>"The only way to get around that is to plane MDF instead of wood." But what about Garolite?

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#36

Re: But..but...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>May be better to use prestressed concrete, or one of those proverbial Australian hardwoods, or a clapboard with about a hundred years worth of paint on it, or Corian™. Garolite™ is full of glass, which is quite abrasive, but it would sure be a challenge.

Hey, I've been to this forest out in NM or AZ with all these really beautiful logs laying all over the desert floor. I think it was a national park. Maybe we could use some of that.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#37

Re: Planing Contest Rules

pfduffy

>Why not an "antique division" for those of us over 65?

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#38

Re: A transmission!

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Now there's a thought. The one thing that probably takes more skill than any other while using a plane, and we are still using hundred year old technology. Adjusting the blade. Why have we not developed a transmission for this? I understand that the money involved in producing cars is a bit different from tool money, but really. I have frequently heard the story of the guy who suggested shutting down the Patent office in the late 1800's, thinking about everything that possibly could be invented already was. It amazes me sometimes how small our minds can be, considering what they are capable of doing. I can easily see your point, and I think I could easily argue both sides of it; but I really think planing competitions are both fun and beneficial to the hand tool world.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#39

Re: Planing Contest Rules

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Even better, how about a scoring handicap for the sum total of your age and the plane's age. Moses needs all the help he can get with those old Baileys he prefers :^)

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#40

Re: Transmission rebuilding competitions

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I got one of those. It keeps jumping out of gear and can't find fifth (the Saab, not the sweety). When you're done, ya wanna rebuild mine, too? Mine's an '87, but I've got a friend down the street with one about the same age as yours. It's got the same problem, too. Imagine that. You'd think Saab had their transmissions built by Kunz, except the're not painted green.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#41

Wow (not long)

Alan Bierbaum

>William - are you trying to make up for two weeks out of town in one post :-) ? This too "real world" for a simple contest.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#42

Use the force, Luke!

John K in Hastings, MN

>The force of gravity, that is.

Standard sized board, shaving must be full width and length, lightest shaving wins. It is pretty easy with a scale accurate to a fraction of a gram (i.e. reloading scale).

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#43

Re: Use the force, Luke!

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>yes, as long as the board has reached equilibrium moisture content. Otherwise, if recent rapid changes in humidity, or if it were left out in the rain, the surface may be significantly wetter or drier, and thus heavier or lighter, than what the subsequent contestants have to deal with.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. Wood is a natural material, designed for the tree, not for the planing contest.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#44

On the West Coast

Dan Clermont

>We drink Granville Island Lager ;)

You bring your Infill planes up and we'll drink.... er ... I mean.. test 'em.

Dan Clermont

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#45

Article?

James Watriss

>There's a lot of fun stuff in here... maybe there should be a gathering of good ideas put into the article section?

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#46

Re: Listen to Frank! (LONG!)

paul womack

>Especially, don't make it so competitive for the youngsters

Heh. But kids have parents. Proud parents.

Just think of softball and pine derby.

BugBear

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#47

Re: Listen to Frank! (LONG!)

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>That's exactly what scares me. Too often teaching competitiveness is used as a poor substitute for teaching skills and cooperation.

Re: Planing Contest Rules

#48

Re: Listen to Frank! (LONG!)

paul womack

>I wasn't (over) worried about the kids being competitive.

More the "there's no way that SOB's son is beating *my* son" thing.

I suppose "my son's better than your son" is the flip of "my dad's bigger than your dad" ;-)

BugBear

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