My bench again

Holdfast source *LINK*

Christopher Schwarz

>Yes, the holdfasts are from Phil Koontz. And I cannot recommend them enough.

See link.

Chris


Galena Village Blacksmith

Re: Battens are the Secret

Steve Kubien

>Yup, those are Phil's. I recognize the shape from my own shop. They are truly wonderful to use. Barely a tap in place and they hold rock-solid.

Steve Kubien

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

Jeremy Osner

>Yeah I'm getting some holdfasts too. And thinking seriously about making a crochet for my bench. They are not a comparable expense to a tail vise though, Joel has them for $6 apiece. Could anyone give me a reference for how to position holdfast holes?

Re: Battens are the Secret

Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO

>I got a couple of Phil's holdfasts back in April and was surprised at how much nicer they are to use than the Woodcraft one that I had been using. They have a spring action to them that makes them hold better with less force applied. I can't recommend them enough.

Ted

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Fantastic Christopher, again! I'd never considered the crochet for such an operation, but it looks spot on! I'm planning on incroperating a twin screw vise on the right end of my bench, but the crochet and holdfast combination is super.

Thanks!

David

Re: Battens are the Secret

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>This is super stuff again and again Chris, and the rest of you - pictures like these, Dean's, and Tarule's are worth thousands of words indeed! I'll have to look into those holdfasts, they sound wonderful. I've got a pair from Highland that I've not used yet, so we'll see.

Thanks!

David

Re: Battens are the Secret

Dean J in MN

>David --

Get a hold of Phil and order some of his holdfasts... Trust me, you'll thank me later.

-Dean

Re: My bench again

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Dean, you head over here any time - 10' stick of moulding or not! My whole bench is SYP, but maybe you're right, I wasn't relishing the thought of making this big project any more complicated!

Thanks.

David

Re: Battens are the Secret

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>I'm emailing him right now...

David

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

Dean J in MN

>

Could anyone give me a reference for how to position holdfast holes?

My advise is to get the holdfasts in hand first. I spaced my holes ~(holdfast reach x 2) apart. Kind of like you would space dog holes, I just had the reach of the holdfast overlap each other a little bit. I have one row of holes, about 14" apart on my bench. My holdfasts have ~8" reach. The row of holes is ~4-6 inches from the rear of my bench (which is 24" front to rear).

My goal was to be able to deal with at least 18" wide carcass sides, and if you set your holes up to allow that, you cover all your needs with the use of battens.

You'll also want one hole a bit closer to the plane stop.

Start with the minimum of holes and add as you find the need. When you use battens, you don't need to have a swiss cheese top. I have 6 holes in total, and the two on the right hand side of my bench have not been used much (yet).

-Dean

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

Jeremy Osner

>Makes sense, thanks. I figured there must be a pretty simple formula but was not sure what.

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

Jeremy Osner

>Say, I was wondering about the notion of modifying my bench by adding a crotchet -- it seems like a pretty simple thing to do and useful; but unfortunately the leg of my bench is set back behind the front of the bench top. Would it make sense to just bolt a piece of wood along the front of the leg to make it flush with the front? And how will this affect using holdfasts -- if I do this my "leg" will be about 6" deep, can I just drill holdfast holes in that or do they need a thinner material?

Re: Crochet for dovetailing

Dean J in MN

>That should work... I use a wooden peg in my legs, you could go down that path for edge jointing.

-Dean

How many should I order?

Martin from Granbury

>I don't have a bench yet, but it is on the list. How many holdfasts do you typical use at one time?

In other words, how many of these should I order?

I am collecting parts for my eventual bench.

Thanks,

Martin, remove "5" for correct email.

Re: Battens are the Secret

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>It would be interesting to see how many orders for holdfasts Phil gets from this thread. I thought I read in the Old Tools archives that Phil make two different sizes. What size are yours, Dean?

Wendell

Re: Battens are the Secret

Dean J in MN

>

It would be interesting to see how many orders for holdfasts Phil gets from this thread. I thought I read in the Old Tools archives that Phil make two different sizes. What size are yours, Dean?

I have the 'Type II' version.

-Dean

Re: How many should I order?

Dean J in MN

>

I don't have a bench yet, but it is on the list. How many holdfasts do you typical use at one time?

In other words, how many of these should I order?

A pair seems to cover all my needs.

-Dean

Re: Wide Panels and OT lunatic rant

Adam Cherubini

>I feel its advantageous to have the shaft of that hold fast to be directly in line with the business side of the planing stop. That way you don't really need to set the hold fast on the batten. The work can sit evenly there. I often use my HF's as nothing more than metal pegs.

Likewise in the picture of the dovetailing in the crochet, I would have shoved a block in with the work piece to move it right so the workpiece would sit down on the hold fast in the leg. That would provide vertical support without any real clamping (which appears to be an English theme or "Arts and Mystery" or whatever you call it.)

As some of you know, I write for PW and Chris is my boss. For this reason I have ceased all comment on any magazine articles and made no mention of PW specifically. But I feel I'd be a horse's arse if I didn't say the following (discount it if you wish);

Freaking awesome work and terrific pics Chri!. When shall we expect this article? I hope it makes the cover. Talk about something that needs to be in a book- this is my idea of what the content of a workbench book should be.

In case some of you missed it, PW has put out a couple newstand only issues that, in my mind raise to the "gotta have it in your library" status. The work bench one and the finishing issues are both worth binding in my humble. (I've included nothing to either of these issues.)

Likewise, the content on woodcentral regarding workbenches has been very helpful to me and in my opinion has raised the bar on workbench discussion dramatically. I assure you this information was not available 10 years ago when I got started down the slope. You guys have all done a lot to move the ball for the next generation. I'm very excited about all these things I read here.

Adam

Re: Wide Panels and OT lunatic rant

Dean J in MN

>

I feel its advantageous to have the shaft of that hold fast to be directly in line with the business side of the planing stop. That way you don't really need to set the hold fast on the batten. The work can sit evenly there. I often use my HF's as nothing more than metal pegs.

I'll second that. I use a 3/4" wooden peg in that holdfast hole in line with my planing stop.

I'll aslo echo that all of this should end up somewhere folks can get a hold of it when they are thinking about building a bench. All the benches I've seen on WoodCentral have been great, all feed ideas into the collective minds of woodworkers. Seeing just how people tackle problems is very interesting.

Thanks to everyone!

Dean

Re: Wide Panels and OT lunatic rant

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I have many times planed panels over 20 inches wide with just a 2" bench stop. I move the board between strokes with my left hand so that I am always planing in line with the stop. It may take some practice, but I adjust the board with no loss of rhythm. With this method you are never leaning way over the bench to plane as you would with the panel stationary. I sometimes use a side batten when planing diagonally.

Just now I can't recall seeing an eighteenth century drawing of planing against a batten, but I'm not sure about this. I do think all these battens are not necessary.

I agree and a question

Adam Cherubini

>I agree. Its absolutley not necessary to restrain a board on the bench top to plane it. More than that, its kind of nice having it loose. Tail vises are over-rated, IMHO.

But if the grain is funny, do you let a lot of board overhang the front of the bench, or do you turn it around?

Adam

Re: Bench stop

Jeremy Osner

>I'm assuming from context that "bench stop" is that big doglike thing that Chris is planing against. Is it just an overized bench dog, or something more complicated?

Re: wide panels

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I do let a wide board overhang the front of the bench when I am planing the far side. If the board is less than three feet long you can plane from behind a bit so that you are standing right up against the bench and the overhang is in front of you. If the board is long and wide it starts to give problems with reaching the far corner. On the other hand, a large board is less likely to move around so it is less critical to plane directly towards the stop.

For a table top I have turned the thing around and planed the other way. This wrecks the visual effect so I try to finish up with a smoothing plane in one direction. I believe I've climbed on top the bench at times. Weren't common tables narrower a few centuries ago?

Re: Bench stop

Dean J in MN

>

I'm assuming from context that "bench stop" is that big doglike thing that Chris is planing against. Is it just an overized bench dog, or something more complicated?

Yep, you have it correct, just something to stop the wood from shooting off the end of the bench. An oversized dog is a good description.

Re: I agree and a question

Dean J in MN

>

I agree. Its absolutley not necessary to restrain a board on the bench top to plane it. More than that, its kind of nice having it loose. Tail vises are over-rated, IMHO.

Over time I am finding myself doing just what was described for wide panels. I shift the board over to the left as I plane. I think battens are great tools and a great compliment to my bench, but Adam is right, as you get the feel for planing against a stop I find there are more times that I just have the board sitting on the bench. A lot has to do with the size and shape of the piece, the grain, etc. Early roughing I find the batten to be a great help as I am planing at an angle. Final smoothing I rarely find myself setting a batten, I just use the stop.

Dean