Better living through chemistry...

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Neal (San Jose)

>Dunno about the galvanized metal, but I'd shy away from it. I bought a stainless pot with a lid at a garage sale for (I think) $.25, and the lid works fine. You have to look hard to tell it has been abused, I mean used, after several sessions in the electrolysis tank. I wouldn't recommend using anything good from the kitchen, but it is garage sale season...

I started doing electrolysis using up some old non-carbide table saw blades, but they eroded away quickly, got coated with some sort of slime which slowed the reaction down, and left a bunch of gunk in the solution. The stainless works faster, doesn't slime up, and doesn't leave nearly as much gunk.

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>The one article I read said a stainless steel bolt is the best and have used mine several times. For bigger items nothing fancy for me a plastic garbage pail and washing soda.

Re: Better living through chemistry...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Why do you think you should be using lye (Sodium hydroxide), e.g., Drano? That stuff will eat your flesh, and blind you if splashed into your eyes. I think you should be using washing soda (Sodium carbonate) as an electrolyte. It is much less hazardous, and works fine.

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>Simply because I have not found the gentler washing soda after visiting some 7 stores. I found lye at the 3rd store but kept looking for washing soda. Besides I have used lye before and it does not bother me and I have good saftey equipment.

Heck I had to try four stores including two automotive stores to find a battery charger. The nearby Sears did not have one and the only thing they had (if it was in stock) was a tiny trickle charger.

Re: Better living through chemistry...

paul womack

>...money buying the tub

The long plastic planting troughs intended for patios or window boxes handle long planes and saws nicely, and are cheap.

BugBear

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I use scrap pieces of stainless steel.It lasts longer.That lye is harmful.Don't splash.Theres other ,kinder stuff that works just as good.---Jack

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I had trouble finding washing soda myself. It doesn't say "washing soda" on the box. It's an Arm n Hammer product in the laundry detergent section of almost every store that sells such things.Look for the ingredients.---Jack

Trickle chargers

Steve Kubien

>Will a trickle charger work, even though it may be slower? That's all I have and I don't mind if it takes a while.

Also, is it safe to leave a zap tank running overnight?

Steve Kubien - who is thinking of trying to zap a few things.

Re: Better living through chemistry...

Ernie Miller

>I just use baking soda. it is in the same section as the sugar and flour. all stores cary it. it works fine for me. Heck you couls even steal a little out of the wifes kitchen and she wouldn't even notice it. I don't like doing saws as they should be shiney not dull when finished.

Re: Trickle chargers

bill tindall

>Yes, but. The reduction of the rust will proceed just fine at any amount of current. Some claim better results at lower current density. But, the rapid evolution of hyrogen bubbles at high current provides a cleaning action for removal of grease, paint, etc., if that is desirable.

Objects retreived from the sea are treated for years, so overnight is OK.

Get it at a pool supply place

Dan Donaldson

>The soda ash that they sell at pool places is what you want.

Re: Get it at a pool supply place

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>While the A&H super washing soda from the grocery store works fine for electrolysis, it has fabric brighters in it. These can cause problems if you are also using the Na₂CO₃ for chemically staining light colored woods, such as maple to give it an antique look. So, your pure pool supply product is a much better deal for the woodshop, because it is cheaper and it is more versatile.

Tubs

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>FWIW, I found a black plastic tub that I think is for mixing moderate amounts of mortar, etc., and a Home Depot (home improvement center).

Anode

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>(Or is it the cathode?)

I bought a stainless steel pot lid for $0.25 at a local Goodwill center. It seems to work ok.

Zapping

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>the only place I ever found Arm and Hammer Washing Soda was at my local Publix in the laundery detergent aisle. I used to use Red Devil Lye crystals, but swithed to the washing soda when I heard of it. I like the Washing Soda better because it is not caustic and therefore it will not harm me should I splash it in my eyes, on my skin, or if my dog where to drink it. Also when using the lye my tools had a tendency to re-rust very quickly and with the washing soda they don't re-rust at all.

For "tubs" I use a 5 gallon plasic bucket which does 99% of what I do. For bigger items I'll use one of our plastic trash cans. I once zapped a handcrank drill press is a 30 gallon trash can and it worked great!

for a battery charger I use a 2 amp trickle one mostly, but I've zapped many an item using my 12 volt charger and have had no problems. when I first learned of zapping the directions said to use a 2 amp trickle charger so I bought one, but once I left it somewhere else so I used my 12 volt one and it worked fine.

I've zapped a few saws and discoverd that it leaves the blades a dull grey, so now I wouldn't zap a saw blade on a bet. Have not had this problem with any other items except for saw blades.

For electrodes I use flat iron stock that is two inches wide. the stock I got at Home Depot and it was zinc coated. After each cycle wipe off with a rag what will come off and soon it will be all gone. No need to go chasing around for some pieces of Stainless Steel, these simple iron rods are all you need.

The one that the tool goes on I drilled some evenly spaced holes in it so that I can wire tools onto the rod and not have them slide off.

I zap for a minimum of 30 minutes than rinse the item with boiling water. Once it evaporates dry hit it with the wire brushes to remove the rust, than wax or oil the item. I use Johnsons Paste wax.

I've discovered over time that 30 minutes and 8 is one in the same. I thought that longer would be better, but found that not only to be true, but also over heated the wires to my clamps which almost melted them off. No way would I do leave a tank going all night. Brothers and Sisters, at the most if the item is REALLY REALLY BAD 3 30-45 minutes zaps should be more than suffecient for anything you've got.

Hope this helps, let me know if you need any more info.

Todd O.

Zapping Fool

hmmm...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I'm using Red Devil lye as well... I wear lots of safety equipment. I messed with lye back in college chemistry.

:)

The only Arm&Hammer powder I found was not Sodium Carbonate but was either baking soda or some other detergent.

So you have used zinc coated iron with success?

Here are two fascinating links that go into great detail about using electrolysis with regard to reclamation of marine artifacts:

IRON CONSERVATION I

IRON CONSERVATION II

They make some interesting observations such as:

- "For electrolytic cleaning of iron, 16-gauge expanded mild steel mesh with half-inch openings is an inexpensive but efficient anode material. This steel mesh is easily cut, relatively flexible, easy to form-fit around the artifact and does not conceal the artifact from view. It also permits free circulation of the electrolyte and will not trap any gases. "

- Tbey advise using Sodium Hydroxide over Sodium Carbonate in certain cases

- They advise starting out with a low current density and then gradually increasing over time.

As regards to time, it's amusing that we talk of 30 minutes versus a few hours. They mention working on a cannon for 6-12 Months.

:)

Re: hmmm...

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Chris,

Yeah, like I said, the zinc coating will soon go away. It blisters up off the iron and I usually take a putty knife to scrage it off when the bar is new. Once it's off than of coarse there is no more problems with it. I get it off the entire rod by inverting the rod over time so that I can get the stuff off that was above the water level when I first started. Dosen't take long, maybe 4 or 5 cycles.

The Arm and Hammer Washing Soda comes in a large yellow box just like the baking soda, only it is found in the laundry detergent aisle. If I couldn't find it I'd darn sure use the swimming pool chemicals before using that Red Devil Lye. that stuff is nasty and dangerous.

The fist time I used the Washing Soda mix vs the Lye mix I accidentaly dropped the rod with the tool wired on it into the bucket and when I did a glob of water splashed into my eye, man I was ever lucky that I had just started using the Washing Soda. The thing is is that I wear glasses and that water still got me square in the eye. You COULDN'T PAY ME to use a lye mix again.

Todd O.

Thinking I need to start a Washing Soda distribution business.