Isn't it amazing....

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Richard R

>I know what you mean. A few months ago there was a LN #8 on the 'bay, seller stated it was practically brand new...used it 3 times or so. I happened across it maybe an hour or so after it was posted; buy it now price was $300.00. I thought "there's got to be SOMETHING not quite right with it for someone to let it go that cheap". So I shot an email inquiry off to the seller. Came back to check on it about 3 hours later and it was gone. One of the few times I've actually had the money to spend and I lose out.

Those grapes were probably sour anyway :)

RR

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>I hear ya' Doug, coarse I think that just recently I was that "other guy". Oh, I sure do like my 8x2x1 Translucent. I actually feel a bit bad for the guy I beat out. It was ugly in the last few minutes, I sat right here and watched him out bid me twice, so I had to hustle and up my bids. I'll sure bet his jaw dropped when he kept getting outbid, I know mine did.

Darn items sit idle for days and days and I think I'm gonna score it cheap, and than BAM! in last few minutes it goes over the moon. Man, I hate that.

Well, think I'll go sharpen up the blade on my new LN #8. No, no Richard, put away those weapons, I was only kidding. O.K, you're right, that wasn't funny. :~(

Todd O.

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Todd Hughes

>As a seller there are few things as enjoyable as watching your item take a big jump in the last couple min.Sold a print the other week that jumped $200 in the last 7 seconds! I don't watch everything I have go off but with ones I think might do good I do if I'm home.I got a knife up now that will get lots of last min. action I know.....Really wish ebay kept the auction going for 5-15 min. after the last bid like some on line auctions do. Imagine they will eventually.....Todd

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>.....Really wish ebay kept the auction going for 5-15 min. after the last bid like some on line auctions do.

I don't understand what you mean by this. As a buyer I don't think I'd like that, and would probably just say to heck with e-bay if they went that way. Don't seem natural. when at a live auction the bidding stops when the auctioneer drops the hammer, it dosen't continue on anymore afterwards. This confuses me. What advantage to see in this for the buyer?

P.S. You never did respond to last e-mail.

Todd O.

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Ernie Miller Topeka

>That would make it more like a real auction. when an auctioneer get up to sell somthng he don't say We have two minutes on this item do I hear $100 how about $2? and it goes untill the person willing to pay the most wins it. The auctioneer dosent dosent say sold when some one else is waving there hand just because the two minutes are up. If ebay would do this people would put in the first best bid and let it go or they would nickel and dime the auction at the end untill the high bidder wone the auction not the person with the fastest computer connection. Last winter I was bidding on some chairs at a local on line auction two hours later and $2000 after it was scedualed to end I finaly let the other person have them. I wish I would have gone another grand. still kickin myself.

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>As I buyer I am interested in getting the item for as few $$$ as possible, and of coarse as a seller they are interested in getting as much $$$ as possible, so it's a tug-o-war stalemate to be sure. I've upped my bid several times after being outbid, but most times I do not. If my uped bid gets outbid than I usually let it go, unless it's something I've just got to have. I'm not wealthy, just a common guy trying to buy things that I like on the cheap.

When it comes right down to brass tacks and truth be told,I DON'T NEED any of this stuff. I have basically all the tools I really need already save maybe a few speciality items, which if push came to shove I could either do without or make the tool I need to do the job that needs doing.

I think that the way e-bay does things right now is probably the best way to keep all parties involved. If they go the route Todd is suggesting I'd be willing to bet that many buyers would just say to heck with it as it's already frustrating enough to win an auction as it is. Just my opinion and not looking to start any war.

Todd O.

timed auctions *LINK*

Clay C in Miami

>As to eBay changing the rules, such that no auction ends until X minutes with no bids, someone asked "What would be the advantage to the buyer?" None I know of. For buyers, the current system encourages sniping and discourages items from reaching their maximum price. It's human nature, and that at least is unlikely to change.

Changing the rules would help the sellers. I'm sure they have a good reason for not switching, though - it's not like they haven't heard the complaint for 8+ years, they make their money from the sellers, and I wouldn't think they would lose too many buyers if they were to change it.

And, the current eBay method do have some precedents, called 'hourglass' or 'candle' auctions.

From Samuel Pepys' Diary, September 3, 1662:

"After dinner by water to the office, and there we met and sold the Weymouth, Successe, and Fellowship hulkes, where pleasant to see how backward men are at first to bid; and yet when the candle is going out, how they bawl and dispute afterwards who bid the most first. And here I observed one man cunninger than the rest that was sure to bid the last man, and to carry it; and inquiring the reason, he told me that just as the flame goes out the smoke descends, which is a thing I never observed before, and by that he do know the instant when to bid last, which is very pretty."

The Paris Notaries' auctions of real estate apparently - to this day - still have an odd vestige of the timed auction. There the candle measures not the auction itself, but (half) the period which must pass without bids to finalize the sale: "The sales take place by candle. This involves small wicks or flames which, when they go out, allow smoke to rise which unambiguously indicates their extinction. It is after the extinction of 2 successive flames without a new bidder coming forward for the duration of their combustion (15 to 30 seconds) that the award is pronounced to the highest and last bidder. The auction by candle is a custom which dates back to the 15th century. Beyond its symbolic and legal significance (article 706 of the rules of civil procedure), this system allows for a sufficient period of reflection."

All that said, I'm mostly a buyer, and I place one bid only, at the last moment, so I hope they never change it!

Clay


Parisian Notaries' sales

Re: pushing the limits

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>We live in a capitalist country, and I think this might affect our outlook somewhat. Plus the media also affects our outlook; why is it that we want so much stuff? I have tools I'll never use, and bought another saw vise today. I had sworn I would never buy another saw vise just this past weekend when I was cleaning the shop. But of coures, this one had to have that swivel ball joint, and for only $10 ;) At a local flea market of course, not on ebay.

If you are not reading the rules and working them to your best advantage, then you are a loser. Okay, maybe that is harsh, but really, you have to work the system as best you know how, and put your money to the best possible use; doing the best we can with what we have I think is the highest priority in life. On ebay, the auctions end at a certain time; I don't forsee this changing any time soon or even far into the future, as it is part of the addiction; getting the item in a race against time and money. It actually gives me a small jolt of adrenaline whenever I am watching the items I'm interested in for the last few minutes of the auction, and I can see how it would be addictive. So I think prices probably are higher because of the timed auction. But "cheap" is a relative word; something that is very expensive to me is cheap to the average person.

At local auctions where the auctioneer waits till everyone has bid as much as they are going to before he drops the hammer, there are only two instances where tools go cheap. One is when there are more tools there than money, which is a very rare occasion. The other time when tools sell cheap is when there are not enough tools or not good enough tools to attract the average buyer.

Re: pushing the limits

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>why is it that we want so much stuff? I have tools I'll never use, and bought another saw vise today. I had sworn I would never buy another saw vise

I really don't think that other than tools most of us are what would be known as Materialistic. When it comes to tools that we accumulate more than what we need I think it has to do with several things. 1 being that we got this tool for less than we know it's worth and one day when I'm old I'll sell it for profit, 2 being that somehow we feel it is a bit of History, of era's gone by when Craftsmen where Craftsmen,things where built right, and the world was a nicer place. I know I'm guilty of this type of thinking, tho I am now getting more selective in my collec...er, accumulating. I have finally come to grips that I will not ever have, nor could I possibly afford "one of everything", so I've quit trying. I must admit that I really had to do some soul searching to fiqure out just what it was that I liked the most and what I can live without.

Trying to put into words what makes we Woodworkers/tool users/collectors/accumulators is tough.

Todd O.

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Todd Hughes

>It is pretty common for me to get an email from a back up bidder saying they got out bid at the last second and if the deal falls though with the high bidder they want it so I think lots of buyers would like the extended rule as this couldn't happen. As Ernie says this is how live auctions go of course. Think if you went to an auction and the bidding went on till they rang a bell at a certain time and the high bidder then was the winner you would think what the heck? and why didn't you have another chance to bid. Extending the auction would do away with sniping and if you got outbid it was only because it went for more then you wanted and not because you ran out of time or somebody beat you to the punch at the last second . Don't see how a bidder could not like that.To say that it would cause people to say to heck with it because they got outbid and that this would hurt Ebay is to forget if these bidders are getting outbid it is because the item is going for more, [duh!] then they want to bid,[or would on a timed auction]....so it would be to Ebays advantage....Am really suprised that ebay hasn't started this but bet they will if possiable.....Todd

It's all about our lizard brains

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Our lizard brains sit there overwhelming the frontal cortex all day long, especially as we get older and the frontal cortex has started diminishing in capacity.

Our lizard brains push us to continue repeating what has been successful in the past. For example, I had a bad tendency to overdo purchases, went looking for a slick and ended up with 5 or 6 slicks. There's only a rational reason for 1 or 2, maybe 3, of them; but the lizard pushed me to keep on being successful. Once I realized this, it became much easier to resist, just tell the lizard you're out of money.

My new definition of a collector is a lizard who's run amok, like that poor woman who's only success is accumulating boxes.

Pam

Re: Isn't it amazing....not

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Those bidders could be, probably are, just as easily telling you that they'd pay the same price for the item, not more. If they were willing to pay more, they'd have bid more. They just didn't know how much it would have taken. For that matter, they still don't know, the winning bidder could have bid a much higher price.

Pam

Re: timed auctions

Kevin F, New Zealand

>The New Zealand online auction site has an option called "Auto-Extend", which the buyer can choose. If they do (and I don't see why they ever wouldn't), then if there is a bid within the last 2 minutes, the closing time moves to 2 minutes later than it was. This gives every bidder plenty of time to decide whether to bid again.

This mimics a live auction, avoids sniping, and must result in higher prices overall - I don't know why ebay sellers don't insist on it.

Of course it works against buyers in the price sense - but helps them in the sense of avoiding sniping. Everyone gets to make their highest bid without having to make it at the last second.

None of the auctions I have been bidding on have gone more than half an hour beyond the original closing time.

So it can be done!

Cheers

Kevin

ahhhhhhhhh that explains the....

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>tail and the desire to eat flies than!! ;~)

Never heard of this theory Pam, but it sure makes sense to me.

Todd o.

Re: timed auctions

Clay C in Miami

>"New Zealand online auction site has an option called "Auto-Extend", which the buyer can choose."

I assume you mean 'seller' can choose? Otherwise, what buyer (bidder) would want that?

Clay

Re: timed auctions

Kevin F, New Zealand

>Of course, you're right, Clay. Sorry.

It's the SELLER who can choose "Auto-Extend".

Thanks

Kevin

"There's only a rational reason..."

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>...for 1 or 2, maybe 3 [slicks]."

OK, Pam, let's hear it. Why would one need three slicks?

Bill, who doesn't even want to START counting his multiple iterations of tools, but tries to sacrifice one from time to time to feel better.

Re: "There's only a rational reason..."

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Different sizes, of course. And for the third, after I got a set of three ("set" is used loosely, there were three chisels in the auction) for few dollars, a Japanese slick presented itself for so few dollars I just had to get it. That was probably a bit lizard and a bit rational. I still plan to sell two or three of them.

But the real question is why I continued looking after winning the first two auctions.

Pam

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>I only buy things on eBay in two ways: automatic sniping, and Buy It Now. There is no way that I would be willing to sit in front of the PC all day, making bid after bid, and making a large bid up front just encourages others (including shills) to nibble away, jacking up the price.

Re: It's all about our lizard brains

Ernie Miller Topeka

>Glad that isn't my problem. I have a Toad brane which is smaller yet. I get my buzz from selling stuff. I might buy some Hallows or rounds if they present them self to me as I walk from sale to sale but I won't go out looking for them. I have a limited amount of room in the shop for more tools so most every thing I buy I sell. and that that dosent get piled in a corner untill I have enough to haull to the auction house or garage sale. You want to know what is sick some things don't sell and you end up with them. Like zigzag rulers I have about half a paper box full of them on the shelf I just keep throwing them in there Thinking I will make somthing out of them like a sculpture or somthing. I did sell a set of auger bits last week Maybe I'll try that again as that box is getting full also. but they don't bring squat at auction or any where as far as that goes. Must remember the six month rule If you don't use it in six months you must get rid of it.

Don't know about that...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>6 month rule Ernie. Just because I haven�t picked up my 62 in 6 months doesn't mean I'm getting rid of it. What about my augers bits? Again no way...

Besides, I can guarantee the 6 month rule won't work, because the day after you get rid of something you haven't used in 6 months, you'll need it for something. Has something to do with Murphy I think...

Re: Isn't it amazing....

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Same here, Don, mostly; although on some items that I think I really must have I'll sometimes, rarely, bid early and large to discourage casual nibbling bidders from jacking up the price. It's just a theory that this works, but usually I've gotten a given item for much less than I'd thought.

Pam

Sounds like lizard's remorse to me. :)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>So your cortex is kicking in after you get home, telling you you've done it again, get rid of this stuff. It can't begin to cope during acquisition.

BTW, this is what advertisers are beginning to target, or at least trying to.

Pam

So does that mean

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>we can start to expect new products to look like bugs?

Hey, actually some of them do; I've noticed there's a trend in things like toothbrushes to produce handles that look strikingly buglike. What does it say about me that I hate those handles? Maybe I've got one of the economy-model, pre-amphibious brains.