Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 3:58 PM #1

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.
Guest

Incorrect size Irons

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.

>I have two wooden planes in which I believe I bought them with the incorrect size iron installed. One of them a 16" jack has a two inch wide mouth but the blade and wedge are only 1-3/4" wide. The wedge is so narrow that it won't properly engage the body to lock down the blade. I got this plane many years ago, before I really became familiar with their use. The other plane, I got from Ebay a couple of years ago is a coffin smoother with a 2-1/4" wide mouth. The blade however is 2" wide with serrated teeth. I believe that style blade is used for preparation of base wood for veneering, a process I've never done.

My question is: when looking for replacement blades should the width be the same as the two mouth openings or should the iron width be somewhat narrower?

A side note. I thought I had gotten my tool addiction under control. I haven't bought an antique tool in two months. Now that I've received a number of wooden planes as gifts for my birthday and the one I just received from Steve Knight Is having me look at my wooden plane collection in a new light. Here we go again. Now where am I going to find that set of matched hollows and rounds? Just kidding. After looking at a new, half set for four figures in front of the decimal point I think I'll stay away.

Re: Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 4:25 PM #2

Andy Lincoln
Member
Offline
419 posts

Registered: 2/6/03
Location: Dearborn MI

Re: Incorrect size Irons *LINK*

Andy Lincoln,In Dearborn MI

>Richard,

Not to facilitate your addiction in any way but one of the tool dealers on the other side of the pond put ssets together for people like us who are addicted to tools.I haven't purchased from this dealer but everything I have read has been nothing but positive.

Andy

Harlequin H&R set

Re: Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 4:37 PM #3

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.
Guest

Re: Incorrect size Irons

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.

>Andy

Thanks for the information. I've added that site to my favorites list. I made the mistake of showing your reply and that site to my wife and her reply was GRRRRRRRRRR! This came from a woman who has never complained about any tool I wanted to buy.

Re: Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 4:46 PM #4

Jim Reed @Tallahassee
Guest

Beware the harlequin set

Jim Reed @Tallahassee

>I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but there are some things to watch for in a set of H&Rs. Matched planes perform the same on a particular piece of wood. Switching back and forth between planes is easy if they cut the same, but it is frustrating and time consuming if they do not. A good harlequin set should not just be matched for size, it should be matched for skew (or no skew) and for blade pitch. Carpenter H&Rs are regular pitch for softwood mouldings. Cabinetmaker H&Rs are higher (some are York) pitched for use in hardwoods. A perfectly matched set of H&Rs is a dream to use, while some harlequin sets can be frustrating to use. I have experience with both.

By the way, in my opinion, most harlequin size matching is done incorrectly. The proper match is an appropriate size graduation of the shape (hollow or round). Pair matching is only convenient. This goes against popular wisdom about matched pairs, but then popular wisdom is often based on conjecture, not experience.

Re: Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 6:07 PM #5

Adam Cherubini, NJ
Guest

Another view

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I think I understand Jim's point. I think he's saying if you stick a mold with your #4 hollow then switch to a #8 round and find it doesn't work as well or whatever, you get frustrated.

Its a legitimate concern and IMHO a reasonable justification to send C&W the kids' college fund, which, if like mine, is languishing in some poorly behaving mutual fund. The planes may well be a better investment!

That aside, I think you have to tune and fettle every plane and get to know it. This isn't unlike anything else.

So I'd say there's no value in matched pairs whatsoever. I think Dunbar started this myth. There's no joinery involved, so there's no technical reason why hollows and round must have matching profiles. The maker's stamp is no guarantee the profiles will match anyway. Wear and shrinkage see to that.

If you get involved with window sash or find you need to cope, its nice to have gouges that match your planes' profiles. Beyond that, getting decent planes is more important than matching makers.

I don't much care for skewed H&R planes. I think skew limits freehand work, but the fence well. My advice is to buy all you see that look helpful and forget the sets, matched or no. If a set is a good deal (and Murland's can be) then buy it. Otherwise, don't feel you need sets or matching things. I have a pristine set of side beads and only ever use 2 of the 7 or 8. I probably only ever use 1/3 of my H&R.

Adam

Re: Incorrect size Irons

4/15/05, 10:33 PM #6

ThomD
Member
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2,627 posts

Registered: 4/19/04

Re: Incorrect size Irons

ThomD

>The irons needs to be smaller, but not by much, a 1/4" is way too much, basically they just need to allow seasonal expansion and contraction, which can be pretty much nil, in some cases. A 1/16" would be as much as I would want.

The problem I have is that while many old planes are wonderful tools, if you have a missmatch, it's not clear to me it is worth fixing. Often neither the blade or body is fully worth saving as a user, if they don't fit in the first place.

I allow a generous 90 minutes to make both a blade and a body, finishing is extra. That assumes a 1x42 grinder, and a sawn body. If I have 2x72 grinder, that nocks off about 20 minuted of grinding. If I mortice the plane, that rather depends, it can come in at the same time, but usualy takes me longer. Based on those figures, it really doesn't pay me to mess with a tool that has become separated from it's original parts.

Everyone has their preferences though.

Incorrect size Irons

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