OT: E-Bay Question

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Todd Hughes

>First I think the seller was unreasonable to not take a money order and don't understand why they wouldn't other then maybe they are automated somehow and have to use paypal. Don't know.I have seen this befor and had to have a girlfriend who uses PP bid on the auction if it took only Paypal as I don't use it.

But if this info was in the auction which it sounds like it was it is up to you as a bidder to see it and to abide by the auction rules. By bidding on this auction you agreed to pay as specified,ie PayPal only even if you missed that part.The reason ebay gave you a strike was that the seller reported you as a non paying bidder [to get a refund on his listing fee] which lets face it you are since you didn't pay for the item using the method specified in the auction. I actually had the same thing happen with me some years back where a fellow wanted to pay me with Paypal even though it says right in my auction I don't take it.

I think the reason ebay gives you the talk after you are about to leave a neutral [or a negative] is that many people might leave one by mistake.In the past I have seen neutrals left that read like..."Service Good" probably not quite what a neutral is there for and perhaps left by mistake by a person who thought of it as more of a B rating with a positive being an A. Am surprised that you haven't got a negative for not paying esp. since you left a the seller a neutral.This leads me to think the sellers are pretty automated.

I don't know if ebay is slanted toward sellers I think it is more that it just cant get to involved in disputes.Of course dead beat buyers do cost it money. While I won't say I get alot of people that don't pay I do get some and really not much you can do about it. Forget about leaving a negative...I have 8 negatives ,[out of 4,500 plus positives] and over half of them are from people that never paid me or even seen the items but left me a negative after I left them one as a dead beat bidder.

Bob am sorry this happened and I can see your side of it [and the sellers/ebay] only thing I can say is to try to read the auctions more carefully.As long as this doesn't happen again in the future it shouldn't affect anything...Todd...p.s. that Mrsdeadhorse...not wildhorse :)

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hackett

>Like every other ultra-large system E-bay has some flaws.The real problem is that it seems nobody at the top feels a need to adress those flaws.Customer service is non-existant at the `bay.

I left E-bay for awhile after having problems like trying for 6 months to get them to change my e-mail adress to correctly reflect my change in ISP`s.The problem caused the seller`s e-mails to sail off into cyberspace.On more than one occasion my e-mails to the seller were blocked by anti-spam software so I was given a strike as a non-paying buyer even though both parties were attempting to finalize the sale.Even after the sale was made thru phone contact with the seller who caused the strike and e-bay was contacted by the seller the strike stayed on my record even though I had paid and had the goods in hand.

Another strike came after a seller took my money(in excess of 100 dollars) thru Paypal which E-bay owns and refused to ship the goods,even after numerous long distance phone calls.The seller was barred from E-bay with nothing but negative feedbacks as both a buyer and a seller but the negative feedback they left for me and the 2nd strike was left on my record.That`s when I left E-bay.

I recently went back to buying on e-bay after hearing that imporvements had been made and now I research everything(including buying only from sellers with multiple positive feedback),ask seller`s questions,and track items I bid on closely.I usually contact the seller before they contact me.

I read and print off descriptions and seller instructions so there`s no guessing if things go wrong.All that being said,I`m still waiting for a back saw after paying for it(thru Paypal) weeks ago.I guess I could call the guy long distance again but the repeated phone calls will cost more than I stand to lose.

I also buried any hopes that E-bay would step in to right things like feedback,sellers who take your money and don`t ship,etc.

Near as I can tell from folks such as yourself the only improvements have been the disgruntled member`s forum where everyone complains but nothing gets done.

Wish I could have been more help.

Mainely,Bob

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Jim Reed @Tallahassee

>Sorry for your bad experience. I buy and sell on the bay all the time and enjoy both sides. I think you got caught in one of the quirks. Sometimes the buyer and seller are both inflexible enough to prevent a deal from happening. I avoid the inflexible sellers and try to work with the inflexible buyers. So far I have managed to keep most of them happy.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I think the only thing that's changed is our attitude and behavior. Ebay's remediation process is ridiculous and not effective, and, as you say, they never remove strikes or negative ratings that are faulty. However, I no longer provide feedback as a buyer until the seller has done so first (I tell them that in my Paypal comments area), got tired of retaliatory negatives. I did stop selling there, though now there's a backlog in the shop, will have to brave it soon.

Pam

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Howdy Todd!

Thanks for giving me some perspective on this situation.

Since I don't do paypal or credit cards (on the 'net) and the seller doesn't accept money orders or checks, I don't know how to resolve this situation which was due to my missing the seller's terms on the sale. This is a conundrum that can't be resolved by me as I don't trust the integrity of the electronic payment system enough and know from first-hand experience what the consequences are when it is compromised. Guess I'll have to chalk it up to another lesson learned.

Sorry about getting mrsdedhorse wrong. Seems I've got CRS worse some days than others.

Thanks again,

BobH

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Thanks Pam,

It's good to know I'm not alone in having complaints about the way they handle situations.

BobH

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Howdy Bob,

Thanks for sharing your experiences on the bay. It's good to know I'm not alone.

I too contact the seller on learning I won an item. I follow up with the date I post an mo and request that the seller let me know the date and method of shipment. About 60% of the time, the sellers respond and let me know as asked, but the other 40% gives me no feedback whatsoever. I'm waiting now for responses on items that ended 2 weeks ago (payment was sent the same or next business day). Too bad sellers can't be given strikes for inattention. How long do you think I should wait?

Thanks again,

BobH

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Thanks for the input, Jim. I hope I am not being unreasonably inflexible about the electronic payment issue; from my perspective I'm just being prudent. I'd gladly remit coin of the realm or other traditional payment, but I won't have my banking and credit card information in a database outside of the banking community.

Thanks again.

BobH

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Rob in Peoria

>Pam,

One alternative to e-bay, although somewhat time intensive (maybe not more than e-bay, however) would be to set up a website and go into business for yourself. The Internet has enabled many small-time on-line merchants. I for one would welcome another.

Rob on Peoria

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Thomas Williams Columbus, Ohio

>I have a separate savings account that I use for PayPal purpose. I keep enough in the account to cover my transactions, but not enough to worry about getting ripped off. To back up the account I do use a credit card, but use one with low limits.

I understand that you can use the VISA gift cards like a credit card as well. This way you do no put yourself at risk.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hackett

>Well Bob,as you`ve probably seen the feedback system seems to have morphed into something other than what it was intended.

IME it should work this way.The seller should leave feedback as soon as he successfully receives payment or has exhausted all reasonable avenues of contact,including the phone.

The buyer should leave feedback after he gets and inspects the goods and makes sure they match the description.

If there`s a problem the phone or e-mail should be used before feedback.

The reality is that the jerks who steal your cash or misrepresent items are also the ones who leave false negative feedback or no feedback and wait till you finally get fed up and leave negative comments to warn other buyers off.They then they leave a negative to counterpunch.

Many folks are surprised to get a call from some guy in Maine who calmly(till the third call)explains and is willing to listen to their side with an open mind.

E-bay has contact info available for the members involved to include phone #`s after each auction.I have to wonder what some folks did before E-bay came along.Have they never had to call anyone in order to buy or sell something?

My advice to you Bob is to not leave negative feedback if there is no feedback left for you.If you absolutely feel the need then don`t be surprised to find retaliatory negative on your slate.

Neutral is an alternative but it`s hard to read someone long distance,they just might want to up the stakes.

So far I`ve had the best luck by using the phone and keeping a positive attitude.The backsaw guy(in Kansas) did say there had been a family emergency and I did say there was no hurry,family should come first.3 weeks and counting...

Even if it goes bad the feedback will probably just stay blank,hard to say till after the next phone call.I just may end up with my first strike the second time out.Let`s hope not,I feel my reputation is worth far more than $10.

Mainely,Bob

PS-If you`re looking for real horror stories,make the mistake of visiting the feedback forum.Be prepared to cry in your beer,everybody else will be.;^)

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Would have to agree with Todd, if the payment info was included in the auction posting, it was your fault for not noticing it. And then also for not figuring out some way to pay for it; I probably would have used my credit card and payed for it for you, and you could have sent me a check or money order. For a small fee ;) So in my opinion the Bay is working the way it should in this case; you get a strike, and learn to read the auction posting in it's entirety before bidding.

I would agree that there are many things wrong with ebay, and they will have to change it or be overtaken. It is just a matter of time before someone starts one of their own with such a horrendous system of mediation in place that it would be so easy to outdo the Bay.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Todd Hughes

>I really don't see how Ebay could do a better job. I read last week ebay is now selling a $1,000 worth a stuff....a second! I forget how many millions of members [30?]

How could ebay in a best case scenero really mediate this. You get a plane off ebay where the seller says it has 95% of jappaning and when you get it is it more like 75% you call Ebay and they put a guy on a plane to fly out and check out your plane...Yup 75%, you get a refund....Well this aint going to happen.In most all of these cases it boils down to he said she said type of thing and how can Ebay...or anybody else really know what its true or get involved. When ever I had a problim with ebay they have been very helpful I think. Last week I had an auction pulled and emailed them as to why since simular items were being sold, a canvas ammo pouch , just the pouch now, for a SkS rifle. Next day i get a phone call from a guy with ebay who was very nice and explaind my auction was pulled because I had used the word "AK47" in it and that makes them think it is an assault rifle part....Pretty stupid and I don't agree with or understand it but was nice to get a phone call from Ebay I thought telling me whats up. Is thier site and thier rules SO.... Not the first time they called

I think getting an auction site off the ground that could take on Ebay would be about impossiable. I remember Yahoo auctions about 5 years ago....does it still exist? Who knows but better yet who cares!? I think ebay will continue to improve...I can't wait till they have it so the auction continues 5 min. after the last bid instead of stopping at a certain time which would stop sniping.Some other small auction sites do have this. The great majority of ebay sales go down with no trouble and i think most people are very happy with it other wise they wouldn't be doing so well......Todd

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Todd Hughes

>I think any seller that leaves feedback as soon as he gets payment and befor he gets feedback is an idiot and it's not if he will regret doing so but is when....A ebay buyer knows when he gets the item what his feedback for the seller should be.If he is happy with the item, if it was sent in a tmely matter, packaged well etc.What can go wrong for the buyer if he is happy with the item? Nothing that I can see. If the buyer is happy with everything the deal is over for him and he should then leave feedback which is how he tells the seller he is happy with the deal.Then the seller knows the deal went well and he can leave feedback....NOW is the deal over for the seller when he gets his payment so that he can leave positive feed back? I don't think so as LOTS can still go wrong with the deal. A few examples that has happened to me or friends of mine AFTER we got payment...Bad check,... Buyer sends back another item saying it's what he got and it's damaged,....Buyer didn't have it sent insured and gets lost or damaged and wants the seller to pay for it,.....Leaves the seller "unreasonable" negative feedback. I got a negative once because a guy wasn't satisfied with a plane he bought. I told him send it back and I will pay postage BOTH ways. He said No he wants me to send him back half his money and let him keep it[!] I didn't think the plane was damaged and told him I couldn't do this. About a month later he gave me a negative trying to sneak it in under the line [didn't work!] .Got another negative from a guy that bought a $20 yankee drill which I said was in excellent condition with 98% of it's original finish. Work up in the morning to a negative. Emailed him asking what the problim was and he said he thinks a tool in excellent condition should show no signs it was used looking like it just came out of the box. When I emailed him as what he would consider a MINT tool he said that would be an excellent condition tool still in the box!....Do you think all these people deserve a positive feedback from me? If I had done like Bob thinks I should I would have left them one....YIKES!.....Todd ,...closing in on 5,000 positives!

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Derek

>I've bought a limited number of things from ebay. I haven't bought anything in quite a long time though.

I stopped giving feedback on sellers until after they give me feedback after a number of sellers never gave feedback on me at all (subsequent to my good feedback). I contacted them repeatedly but there was no response. It would eb nice if the buyer could make good feedback contingent on the seller doing the same or vice versa. That would solve the problem of lazy sellers.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Howdy Bob!

I wouldn't even consider leaving negative feedback. The only reason I posted a neutral was as a means of pointing out the seller's payment mechanism restrictions for others who might find themselves where I was but before the bid.

I would suggest that e-Bay require their sellers to post PROMINENTLY what forms of payment they will NOT take, perhaps even requiring confirmation that the bidder has read those constraints before accepting the bid. This is such a common practice on this platform that I can't believe anyone would find it objectionable.

I would also suggest that e-Bay modify its bid recantation policy to include that buyer and seller couldn't agree on a payment mechanism as a valid reason for withdrawing a bid. The way it's set up now it is far too easy for this information to be miscontrued.

My problem was that there was no way to fix the error -- made in good faith and without ulterior motive -- once it was made.

Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to know if my position was way out of line or if others were having problems on the bay as well. FWIW, I have 2 items that I bought before the cited transaction where I mailed MO's within 24 hours of winning the bid and posted emails to the sellers. It's been going on 3 weeks now without responses to my emails and no product in the mailbox.

I'm not gonna shop on the bay anymore. You guys who sell there need to urge/force ebay to give more alternatives for resolution for buyers or your market is going elsewhere. For tools, I'll go to The Porch; for everything else I'll google and avoid the bay.

Thanks again,

BobH

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Bob Hutchins in Central Texas

>Howdy Todd!

See my response to Bob Hackett. What's wrong with my suggestion of a payment method confirmation box? What's wrong with my suggestion that the bid recantation rules be stretched to cover this point? I've studied a (very) little commercial law but there are 4 basic requirements for a contract to be valid: offer, acceptance, delivery and remuneration. One could argue that these were all met in my case; however, in my understanding, acceptance includes agreement by both parties on the method of payment in a very clear manner, not one that can be easily misconstrued. The onus in the ebay scenario is ALL on the buyer and very little on the seller, who is, after all, still holding his goods and is out nothing until the transaction is complete. Is the bay this greedy that they condone and facilitate practices wherein terms can be partly obscured and not positively confirmed with all conditions present?

Like I said above, I'm voting with my feet. I think that others eventually will too. Your market won't disappear but I believe your potential market depth will shrink.

BobH, waiting to hear all opinions.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sure, Rob, but I'm not making a business of this, just an annual shop cleaning. In this case, it's been two years since I sold anything on ebay and started accumulating what turned out to be mistakes for me.

Pam

Re: OT: E-Bay Question and slight hijack

Dale Stansbery

>Bob, Ebay is the Microsoft of on line auctions. Even if they're wrong, one person's complaint isn't going to change how they do business. And no one is likely to compete with them in the foreseeable future. Someone here recently suggested that I try "Square Trade" to mediate a dispute with Ebay. As it turns out, Square trade will negotiate between buyer and seller, but not between Ebay and anyone else. You might give them a try, but it may cost you a few bucks. I do see occasionally where feedback has been mutually withdrawn.

I'm still trying to get reinstated with Ebay after being suspended for something that I have no knowledge of, and I had no strikes. Apparently someone tried to use my contact information to establish a new account after they had been suspended. The culprits have at least eight Ebay ID's that have been suspended. I'm surprised that Todd has had such success with Ebay customer service. They have been particularly uncooperative in sharing anything with me. Their latest request was for me to send them a signed affidavit saying that I am who I am, as well as a copy of my drivers license and a copy of a utility bill. Then, they may consider reinstating me.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I take the other side of this. I refuse to do money orders or checks, just too much trouble. I use Paypal, which allows me to have a separate account from others, including credit cards. I use the Paypal debit card online (for trusted vendors like LV I use my regular debit card), which doesn't do overdraws, so anyone who steals it can get to a very limited amount of my funds. To be honest, most people just don't want to deal with standing in line at the PO to purchase a money order; and all the other computer people I know hardly ever write checks anymore.

Pam

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Mike G.

>I dunno Bob. I live in a worse "tool hell" than Todd H. Most of my tools have been purchased from Ebay. I try to read everything closely as I don't like suprises, but twice I've bid on items where the seller said they didn't take M.O.'s. Both times I emailed the seller and was able to work it out so both of us were happy. I only buy from a few sellers. I have them bookmarked and check them regularly to see what's available that I might want. It's really not a bad medium for selling or buying, but there's some folks on there that have the " My way or the highway" mentality. Those sellers usually don't last long.

My wife sells on Ebay and has had a few problems, but that is just a part of doing business. Just like running a store... there's mostly good days and a few bad days.

Mike G.

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Todd Hughes

>I think befor you can place a bid on ebay now you have to scroll down past a large box that clearly says "PAYMENT METHODS" where is listed the payment methods this seller takes. I imagine the auction you bid on said Paypal and didn't say MO or checks. Really don't know how this could be made clearer or could be misunderstood. I just checked my auctions and there are actually two boxs saying the payment I take all befor you can bid. I have a friend that doesn't ship out of the country, says this in his auctions as well as in the ebay info block and STILL forigners bid on his stuff! I really don't think any of this info is hidden or "partially obscured" from you esp. since you have to scroll down right past it to bid.

I disagree that a seller is "out nothing" if the deal is not completed. He is out the time and effert it took him to write and place the auction...Is out the commison fee paid to ebay...Unless he reports you as a non paying bidder he will be also out his listing fees and if he does go to the trouble of relisting the item no guarrantee it will go as high the second time ,[though truthfully could go higher...and has for me]....I don't think as a buyer you would be very happy after you won an auction to have the seller email you and say that he decided he isn't going to sell it to you after all for what ever reason, maybe because he missed the fine print on ebay of what they charge commison.A seller that does this will get kicked off ebay just as fast as a buyer that doesn't pay. You,[and ebay] expect the seller when he list somthing to abide by the rules and i don't think it is unfair to expect the buyer to do the same thing.....Todd

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Todd, not everyone uses the page based bidding mechanism. For example, I use a sniping service. Also, not all bidders are that clever about providing this information. For example, one seller put "Paypal" in big red letters, so when I bid I thought I'd be able to pay that way. On a more detailed reading (this seller had multiple paragraphs about what someone had to do to satisfy this twit), I saw it said in black "no" right before Paypal. What an idiot. And then she complained that she had warned she didn't accept paypal. Geesh. Did she really expect everyone to read that drivel?

Also, sellers take stuff off the bay all the time, citing this reason and that, regardless of whether there are active bidders.

You are probably a decent seller, although I'll never buy one of your items regardless of how attractive because of your insistance on MO's and checks. I think you're missing out on sales. You have no idea how many of us don't even bother to read the auction after finding payment methods too time consuming.

Pam

Re: OT: E-Bay Question

Todd Hughes

>I think you are right about the bussiness lost because I don't take Paypal and i am actually thinking about it. Just seems like a big hassel to me and make it more likely to make mistakes probably think this because I really am not that familar with how it works. I have a girlfriend that uses it and she likes it but is expensive for a seller. I figured it up if about everybody used it on my auctions it would cost me over $1,500 a year to use it! Would I get back this much in lost bids? I don't know. I really feel i do so well on ebay now I don't know if it would make that much of a difference to make it worth while. I think where paypal helps you is where you sell common stuff and the potential bidder skips over what you are selling to go to a paypal seller that has the same thing. I try not to sell stuff like this....Todd