Question for Adam and other workbench mavens

OK - Half Blind DTs, Right?

Todd Stock

>I can see that usage for a half-blind DT - not my pref, but worked for Kingshott. Seems like a face vise (even a shoulder vise) would handle it as well - you'd just be turned 90 deg for sawing.

Re: OK - Half Blind DTs, Right?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>That's what Kingshott demonstrates; but should be good for any dovetails.

I agree with your shoulder vise example, as I said above; but I haven't tried it. I'd guess it depends on how thick/sturdy the jaw, how well the jaw holds if off center of the screw.

Pam

Re: But Lap Dovetails...

David Wheeler

>You bet. Ted Schuldt wrote the article. I cut my teeth on the bench.

-David

Re: Question for Adam and other workbench mavens

Andy Lincoln,In Dearborn MI

>Dennis,

Lee Valley makes/sells a wonderful addition for a workbench that addresses the situation you describe above.With the Veritas�WonderDogs� you can close up those gaps between dog holes very well.I've had a set for about 3 months now and wonder how I lived without them.I cannot comment on how they would work on a bench with square dog holes as mine are round and they work great.

Andy

Re: Bench Screw ??

john jesseph

>I think I'm going to call Williamsburg and ask them how the vice guide is housed. I have a pic from Dave Anderson that shows the bench from the side, but I can't quite see it...

Re: Or....Norm's Endvise?!?!

Steve Kubien

>"You will loose a little room with this set up though because a traditional tail vise will open 12 or so inches beyond your bench."

That is the biggest fault of this style of vise, IMO. If you opt to go with format, I would lengthen the bench by another foot so you've still got all the room you are already planning on. DAMHIKT

Steve Kubien

Re: Or....Norm's Endvise?!?!

Mike Real from Pittsburgh

>I also have the sliding dog block and am very happy with it. I can't see cutting molding or grooves against a stop. Seems it would twist from the unequal pressure. I have tried using two holdfasts that I bought from woodcraft and they just don't hold in my 1 1/2" benchtop

Thanks everyone and some random thoughts

mike recchione

>Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I guess my take-away is that a tail vise, assuming it works the way it's supposed to, is a pretty cool thing to have on a bench, but that you can learn to live without one. I've certainly been grateful for mine at times, flawed as it was.

One thing I'm getting from these workbench design discussions is that a traditional workbench is potentially a very specialized tool, and many of us who do woodworking as a hobby don't do specialized work. Which makes almost any workbench design we settle on a compromise.

For example, if all I did was stock prep on my bench, but needed to prepare long boards for large pieces, an 8 or 9 foot Nicholson bench might be the ultimate tool. On the other hand, if I did most of my stock prep elsewhere but used the bench mostly for fine joinery and final surfacing, the German cabinetmaker's bench might be what I wanted. And so on.

The problem is, most of us hobbyists don't do just one thing. I've partially solved the problem by having more than one bench - there's a primary one for stock prep and joinery, another (higher) one for carving, one for sloppy stuff like metalwork and sharpening, a low horse for ripping and rough dimensioning, a shaving horse, etc. (Not owning or using machines opens up shop space for specialized benches :-) ). But I've still asked my primary bench to do many things, and it has been better for some than for others. Complicate that by the fact that what I've asked it to do has changed over time.

We try to design the ultimate bench that will be optimal for everything we can think of. One problem with that approach is that we can't think of everything we'll want to do next year today. Another problem is that, after a certain threshold is reached, enhancing a bench to be better able to support activity A starts to interfere with its ability to support activity B.

I recently built a small bench to use in my garage in warm weather. For this bench, I took a very different approach. Rather than try to optimize it for every activity I could think of, I made it very simple. I aimed for having it support a growing set of bench accessories that are specialized for individual tasks.

For example, I like to do relief carving, which requires a higher work surface than a joiner's bench, as well as a good way to clamp small panels while they're being carved. The clamping system should not get in the way of the carving activity, and should be secure enough to withstand mallet work. The solution here was a mini-bench similar to the one in the last FWW. (Actually, my version used a sliding dog block like the one we've been calling "Norm's Tail Vise" on this thread. I haven't actually built the mini-bench yet, BTW - it's on the todo list for this Spring.)

Another example is that I like to do stuff that requires shaping irregular pieces of wood "in the round". For this, a very firm yet flexible holding arrangement that is 6 to 12 inches above the benchtop is desirable. One solution that I've seen is to configure the bench with a leg vise that extends above the top by the requisite amount. And if I never cared about edge jointing, that would be a great solution. But I do. So instead, I designed a supplementary vise that can be positioned flexibly in two planes, and that is held in my face vise.

The notion of using bench aids or even supplementary vises to extend the capabilities of a more or less generic bench isn't new or original to me. I still have to play with it for a while to see if mounting and dismounting these things gets to be more of a pain than it's worth. But I wanted to throw out the idea, anyway.

Adam, if the weather behaves this weekend, I'm planning to come out to Pennsbury. Even if I don't resolve the "ultimate workbench" question, It'll be fun to see you and hang out for a while.

Thanks again, everyone.

- Mike

Re: Molding

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I think sticking boards were invented for molding. An end vise won't help that much on long, thin stock.

Pam

Re: Thanks everyone and some random thoughts

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Excellent summary, Mike.

As I was reading your post, following the thrust of your point, I immmediately thought of that mini bench in the latest FWW, and then you specifically mentioned it yourself.

I think that there is merit to the idea of a simple bench for stock preparation, and added "accessories", be they simple or more complex, for other specialized tasks.