Ripping Boards

Re: Ripping Boards

Joel

>ripping boards is a lot of fun. I hlod the board one of two ways.

The Lazy way - which is clamp it in a vise and rip down, moving the board up as I go.

or the right way - Which is on a low workmate, with the board held down with my knee.

Re: Ripping Boards

Nevil Bevel

>It can be easily done. Put the board lengthwise along on old bench (low), draw a line down the board, take a 26 inch rip saw, put your knee on the board to keep it in position and cut. Voila! This way could be a bit dodgy if you use a circular saw; you'd be better off clamping it to the bench with C-clamps. Hope this helps.

Nevil

Re: Ripping Boards

glh

>I've seen my uncle and grandfather rip boards with a rip hand saw and a saw bench. You lay the board lengthways across the bench and if you're right handed you put your right knee up on the board and balance yourself with your left leg on the floor. (This is easier to show than to describe.) You have the waste side of the board hanging off the bench and just start sawing. As you move along, you simply reposition the board so you can get to it with the saw.

I tried it years and years ago but never was really successful. My legs were to short then. Now that my legs are long enough my stomach is too big to get in that type of position for over 5 seconds. It requires some degree of coordination. I'm sure I would end up on the floor.

Now, there may be a better way to do this, but this is all I know about. I use either a table saw or band saw to rip boards on.

Re: Ripping Boards

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I have a 18" high seat/bench that was made just for that job. It's considerably easier to just use my foot to hold it while I rip boards. If you can find a good 5 tooth rip saw it goes fast.

Re: Ripping Boards

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Actually ,with straight grained woods,the axe method is practical.It's called riving and chairmakers do it all the time.Roy underhill talks about this in his books.It's a little more involved that chopping it down the middle and planing smooth though.---Jack

Re: Ripping Boards

Nemo Tools

>Funny you should ask. I just finished ripping up a bunch of SYP getting ready to replace my bench(See pic and you will understand why I want to replace my bench). The goal is to end up with a bench loosely modeled after Bob Key's pretty good bench. I had to do all this ripping because my local L@w#'s did not have SYP 2x4's, only 2x8's and I was determined to use SYP.

Using my workmate as a low bench, this is what I did:

1. I rough jointed the best edge to use as a reference.

2. I located and marked the center at each end, from the reference edge.

3. I cut a small notch at the center mark on the arris of each end.

4. I ran a chalk line from the notch on one end to the notch on the other end and popped it. I tried marking this line using a marker and using a straight edge and pencil, but the rough SYP just naturally likes a chalk line better.

5. I transfered the center points down and around to the other face and repeated the chalk line business so that I had a centerline on the ends and both faces.

5. Using my "Phenix" rip saw, 5 point, I went to work. The first few strokes were done carefully to be sure that the saw was tracking both the vertical and horizontal centerlines.

6. Following Roy Underhill's suggestions, I flipped the board over after every 5 or 6 strokes and cut from the other side. This slows the work down but reduces the tendency to wander off the centerline on the bottom face.

7. There were several ugly knots in this stock, which required switching to my Diston cross cut panel saw that I proudly sharpened myself using the instructions found here at WoodCentral.

8. When I was finished, my cuts weren't perfect, so I rough jointed them with Mr. Jack, my handy No. 5 with the blade sharpened with waterstones using the methods that I learned here on this message board.

I had a bit of trouble with the kerf closing up, so I had to keep it wedged open with a thick scraper. I found it handy to put a couple of spring clamps on the board, and I held it in place by leaning on it with my left hand. I did not find a need to put my knee on the board.

I did a total of 7 five foot 2x8's to get 14 pieces for my bench top.

That's how I rip boards. It was a totally learning experience in which I had to reinvent the wheel and learn every basic lesson every step of the way. I plan to put up a web page showing how I built my bench when it is finished.

Re: Ripping Boards

Nemo Tools

>Sorry, my pic didn't make the trip.

Great Ripping Bench *LINK*

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Here is a link to a posting by Paul Alt of a great ripping setup:


Paul Alt Rip Bench Thread

Re: Ripping Boards

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I don�t buy the sawing bench thing. People talk about them as if they've always existed, but I�ve never seen any early reference to them. Moreover, I think they have some technical disadvantages:

Hanging the off-cut off the edge of a bench isn�t great. As you near the finish, you need to support the off-cut. Also, pushing hard requires additional clamping, which I don�t like. As the cut progresses, must you move the clamps to continue working over the bench? Or is the bench long? I guess it depends on the width of the stock and the size of the offcut.

I have to rip about 20' of 1x3 in half tommorrow. Can you do that on a sawing bench? Can you make a sawing bench with a bathroom vanity under it? Maybe made of curly cherry? Maybe I'd like it more then.

I think a pair of saw horses are much easier. I keep them about 4 feet apart, stand between them and slide the board across them. Obviously you must start and finish on the far side of the horses.

I shouldn't be so vitriolic. You can't rip a short piece between horses. My horses have wide tops like the sawing benches guys build. They look like those in the painting in my beloved �The Workbench Book�. Just a thick board with holes bored for rough hewn legs. You could make a nice set of rough hewn horses out of a small tree trunk. Would be a fun afternoon project for someone not afraid to use a sharp hatchet.

Splitting boards is a reasonable approach. But I�ve not had success splitting wide kiln dried stuff. I�ve tried a couple different methods. I do split or hew when the off-cut is scrap.

I guess I should mention, although I don�t particularly recommend it, ripping at the bench. You can rip at a high (planing height) workbench using the overhand grip (with the saw moving more or less vertically). I assume this technique was used by European factory workers, who lacked the space for horses. It�s efficient and works fast, but it�s unlike almost everything else you do, so it never really feels as comfortable as ripping at the horse. I've done this with open saws and framed saws. Never felt quite as comfortable with the framed saw, but that may have more to do with their blades. I really need to make new blades with the teeth I want.

So just re-reading, I guess I'm wrong about the sawing bench. Sorry. But I think you should think about all this stuff. If you find yourself struggling, don't assume "that's just the way it was". You should be able to rip that 4 footer (assuming its 4/4) in about 2 minutes. I don't think you should do without horses. But those horses better not look like 2x4's. They have to look a bit more like the sawing benches everybody else has recommended...only skip the bathroom vanity underneath.

Adam

Re: Ripping Boards

John in Richmond Hill, ON, CA

>I remember reading somewhere that Jim Tolpin chooses to riven when he can instead of ripping (I could be wrong though).

Could riving be used for boards? Have you tried this?

You mention that it is more involved than chopping to down the middle and planing smooth. Could you give a brief explanation?

thanks

js

Re: Ripping Boards *LINK*

William Claspy in Cleveland

>But those horses better not look like 2x4's. They have to look a bit more like the sawing benches everybody else has recommended...only skip the bathroom vanity underneath.

I recently (maybe a year ago) built a pair of the horses that Roy made on the show several years back. The pdf plan is in the link below. I've not used them much for ripping, but my feeling is that they are fine for ripping longer boards, but not so great for ripping shorter boards. That is, you can't just use one horse and have the board along the length of the top of the horse- the narrow 2x is just, well, too narrow. For shorter boards, I find that I rip at the bench, with the board held vertically in the face vise.

From a shop clutter perspective, I like the relatively small footprint of these horses, and that they stack (as I built them.)

Bill


St. Roy saw horse plan PDF

Saw Bench

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Maybe I don't really know the difference between a sawing bench and sawhorses but...

...when I think of saw benches, I think of something about 3 feet long, 16-18" tall, with about a 9 -12" wide top. No bathroom vanities.

One is used for ripping short stock. Two are used or ripping long stock. They can also be used for working stuff whilst sitting.

I agree

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Right Jeff,

I think mine are 6" wide, 2" thick, 3' long and over 20" high, but I'm pretty tall so don't use that as a guide.

You really want the horses high enough so your saw doesn't hit the floor.

Adam

Re: Ripping Boards

Jack Guzman from Maine

>When you rive you don't chop.You split the wood along the grain.A froe does this better than an axe.I have tried this a little. I have a bunch of rough red oak that I air dried and I've been gradually breaking it down for projects.It's not difficult just different. You go with the natural shape of the wood instead of beating/cutting it into the dimensions you want.

Height

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>"You really want the horses high enough so your saw doesn't hit the floor."

Yes, that is a good point. On the upper limit, one wants to be able to put the weight via the knee on the stuff with the other foot firmly planted.

I guess the worst body type for ripping would be to have long arms with short legs. :-)

What do you think

Clay C in Miami

>What do you think about the Alt setup linked in Don's post above? Ergonomically, it SEEMS like it makes as much sense as horses or low saw benches, but that's awfully hard for me to gauge without trying it.

In fact, it looks comfortable, and other than the space it takes up ... (wonder if there'd be a way to save the space - hinge a similar rig from a post or corner of a wall, yet have it fix solidly enough at angle(s) ... and replace Mr. Alt's fiddly-seeming clamps with wooden cams or wedges to hold the work ... hmmmm)

Clay

Re: What do you think

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>That's not a woodworking tool, its an easel!

I think ripping a board held vertically has a few distinct disadvantages. The most important of which is ....when you make a mistake with a saw, you lay it down to correct. How do you do that comfortably when sawing vertically.

I think an angled thingy like this is a version of how some folks used to convert timber. Its the alternative to a pit saw operation. But pit sawing is really different from what we're doing. You have the mass of the log and the guy on the other side....

That said, I don't want to discourage experimentation. And that looks like a very well made easel.

Adam

Re: Ripping Boards

Warren in PA

>Most people rip on a low bench or set of benches or trestles about 18" high. You can saw parallel to the edge of the bench about an inch away or you can saw toward the bench from about 5 inches away and move the board when close to the support.

Most saw with the right hand and clamp with the left knee. Using the knee on the same side is much clumsier and robs you of the chance to use your body to help power the cut.

I usually use a panel gauge on a jointed edge to mark a line and then saw about a sixteenth of an inch away from the line. Flipping the board upside down during the cut is alright for a beginner; I cannot imagine a skilled worker doing this.

In fairness to Mr. Alt,

Wiley Horne

>he's ripping using a tatebiki. So his easel (made of 4x4's) has some big advantages. It's easy and natural for him to correct the cut. And the load is directed pretty much straight down those paired 4x4's onto the seat board. That means that a single quickclamp on the other side is about right, and real fast.

When you go to a Western rip saw, everything changes, as Adam points out, and the advantages are not there. But Mr. Alt sure makes the tatebiki look like a good alternative.

Wiley

Re: In fairness to Mr. Alt,

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Methinks Mr. Alt is an engineer. :-)

Re: Ripping Boards

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Riving boards is a lot easier than hand sawing, but is best done with perfectly clear wood. If your splits halve the workpiece, you should end up with fairly straight splits, and nice even lumber. When the pieces get thinner, you can actually guide a split back towards the middle by pulling the fatter "half" back. (This is easy to show, not so easy to explain.) I have made some planks this way, but I don't usually do it with nice clear logs, so my planks tend to twist with the tree's imperfections. The nice logs I rive into chair parts.

As previously mentioned chairmakers do a lot of riving. Turning blanks, and stock for spindles, rungs (for ladderbacks) and bows/arms. Riving is a skill, and a practiced chairmaker can rive square stock to within an eighth of an inch of the round part's final dimension, or better. This may sound fantastic, but basketmakers split oak down to even tighter tolerances. Shingles were made this way as well- no saws (except the cross cuts).

Greg

Take a look at this bench...  *LINK*

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>


Charlie Rogers Sawing Bench

Dang It ! I've been outed

Paul Alt on Cape Cod

>Jeff,

I keep trying, but hiding an engineering background is not so easy. Must have been the funky lights that gave me away.

I think the bottom line on my ripping setup is that it is comfortable. If you only occasionally rip boards then almost any approach works. If it is a really bad setup you will have to cut far from the line and do a lot of clean up afterwards. If you do a lot of ripping having a comfortable and stable setup is a benefit.

The vast majority of rips I do with Japanese saws, but the setup also works for western saws and bow saws. The sawing bench (or easel) is a work in progress and as soon as some time frees up I intend to make a few changes to it.

Paul

Re: Dang It ! I've been outed

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Just remember.... it takes one to know one. :-)

Seriously, I can see how your stand would be particularly well suited to Japanese saws, though the Japanese would be concerned about the fact that you weren't doing enough gymnastics by using some part of your body to control the stock :-). I would think that your approach would also be easier on one's back.

I think that the tendency using a western saw would be to use two hands on the saw handle which might result in some loss of control on keeping the cut perpendicular to the stock. There is something about the human arm mechanism working parallel to the body that helps in this regard.

Jeff

Recovering Engineer. BSME 1984