Brilliant idea? And questions.

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Steve Kubien

>Hi Dave,

I think your idea would work but while planning a similar bench I was steered towards the idea of have a wide front apron (12-16"). This way, you can still use a dog or holdfast directly under the crochet and addition dogs/pegs/holdfasts could be used anywhere in the apron you feel like drilling a hole. The drawback of such a design is that it limits the useable storage space available under the bench.

This is what I plan to do when my next bench becomes a reality. I can't answer your question about vise screws although, I anxiously await the answers from the masses!

Cheers,

Steve Kubien

Ajax, Ontario

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

George Makowski

>David, I have the 1 1/2" threading kit with the plan to use it to produce vise screws but I haven't yet assembled a vise using them though I have made some screws and nuts. They seem to provide a lot of clamping power.

The know-how in this group on the subject is, to my knowledge, Adam Cherubini who answered a query like yours that I posted back on Badger Pond I believe. There may have been another one in this forum too. If I recall correctly, his own twin screw, no garter face vise runs on 1 1/2" screws that he threaded.

Good clamping,

George in AL

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Dean J in MN

>David -

You are spot on catching the Roubo bench used with the 2x4 for the vertical load support. I do the same thing with my board jack. That is, even though I have holes in the legs like you, and also have a board jack, there are times I still use a batten with them. For wider boards the board sits on the peg in the leg and the peg in the board jack. But, for boards not wide enough to sit above the surface of the bench to edge joint I toss a batten of some sort on the same pegs and rest my board to be edge jointed on that. Just like you see in the workbench book. Your idea may well work, but if I recall your bench drawing you are looking at a long span between your legs. My method of using a batten can use shorter battens and seems to me to avoid any sag/stiffness issues. But it isn't the only way, mock up the distance you'll have and give it a try -- see how stiff the resulting planeing surface would be.

I think you will learn quickly that battens are your biggest friend with a bench like this. They solve a lot of holding issues on this bench.

-Dean

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Boy that Dean knows his stuff, don't he? I agree with him (whatever it was he said).

About the screws:

The screw diameter is fine. Plenty strong enough. But the thread pitch is too fine for my tastes (6tpi). Having said that, I figured that when my threads wore out or chipped off, I�d simply make another screw or nut. (making your own threads is kinda like �teach a man to fish�, so I liked that approach). That was at least 5 years ago and the threads are worn but still working okay. So is this a big issue? The other thing to consider is that you need to turn a really good cylinder. Since the threads are small, you don�t have a lot of tolerance. The better your turning, the better the thread engagement, the lower the wear, the greater the power etc. You also need really good stock for your screws. I used beech. Maple would be good. I wouldn�t recommend oak or ash or hickory. In the end, I think this is a lot to ask. If you could buy 2� 4 thread or 3 thread screw for $100 a piece, I think you�d be better off.

The only thing I'd like to add to what Dean said is that, at least in theory, you can stick a holdfast in your board jack and clamp your work against the face of the bench (if it isn't too wide). In reality, how well this works depends on the board jack's material, runner system, thickness etc.

The alternative solution to this problem is an apron with holes in it. The resulting bench is called the �English� or �Nicholson� bench. This bench has much to recommend itself. It�s made from thin (8/4) boards butted together. The deep apron lends a great deal of stiffness to the front of the bench top and the legs. These are the benches Williamsburg is currently using (but hasn�t always used) and an excellant place to start. I started with such a bench, but found several things I didn�t like about it. Vise integration isn�t easy. The Nicholson vise isn�t great. You can�t clamp anything to the top except at the ends (because of the apron). All in all I think this is a good bench for a carpenter, or house joiner. For a cabinetmaker, or anyone making a great variety of products, I think you would be better off with a little less edge work efficiency and a little more flexibility everywhere else. I could be dead wrong. It may be a failure of imagination that prevents me from seeing the superiority of the Nicholson bench. People that have them (pretty sure Jeff Schmidt made one) like them.

Adam

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Dean J in MN

>

Boy that Dean knows his stuff, don't he? I agree with him (whatever it was he said).

Hey, be nice Adam... :-)

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>Adam Cherubini said

"If you could buy 2� 4 thread or 3 thread screw for $100 a piece, I think you�d be better off."

Not trying to be a smart-a$$ or anything, but why not buy a Veritas Twin-Screw for a $175 instead? I can understand learning to make your own screws because its more economical and just a plain neat skill. Adam, do you think there is some advantage to having a woodscrew based vise over the Veritas system? I don't have any experience with either which is why I am asking.

Wendell

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Dean J in MN

>Well, I went the Veritas twin screw route...

It is not the same as Adam's wood screws for a few reasons. If I took the chain off of them it would be closer... But I can disengage the chain and still get my vise to 'rack' and grip uneven pieces. But not to the extent an all wood garterless twin screw will allow. I have the screws set in the middle of the thickness of my bench, so it has the same advantage of having the screws close to top of the bench. Having never used a garterless all wood twin screw I can't say if I am really missing something. I could well be.

-Dean

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Doug Littlejohn

>David, I was faced with a similar problem for the screws I will use on my bench. I got a 2-1/2 screw, block and hadle for about $20 shipped off Ebay. Just keep looking out for Wodoen screws adn you'll come accros them

Of course what I ended up with is really old and has as much history as functionality.

Sherwood

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>What is the advantage of having screws near the top of the bench top? It seems like they would get in the way of clamping more often if they are closer to the top of the bench.

Wendell

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

Dean J in MN

>They don't get in the way at all. I have a over 20" between centers, so my carcass sides fit between the screws without any issue. And seeing as this vise is not used for holding a board for edge jointing (the wooden hook on the front left of the bench does that job) the screws aren't in the way for edge jointing. If I have a real narrow piece I want to edge joint and the hook/boardjack/batten is still to low, or just not stable enough I use the twin screw. And in that case it is nice to have the screws "in the way" it keeps me from dropping the piece through the vise...

Add to that you have a small lever arm so racking is at a minimum.

-Dean

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

John Aniano in Central NJ...

>David,

I like Adam's suggestion regarding the lower TPI screws - they will last much longer than higher pitch screws.

However, not to hijack this idea - but - as always, I ask prospective workbench builders/designers the question: why not utilize a leg vise? They are VERY strong, very versatile, simple to make and fun to use. Not to replace a double screw vise, but to augment one, preferably located at the right hand-side of your bench, assuming you are right-handed.

Just my usual $0.03 on the subject of my favorite (and only) type of woodworking vise...

John

Re: Brilliant idea? And questions.

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Thanks for the thoughts Dean, they all help.

David

Re: More questions: *LINK*

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Thanks Adam, all the thoughts and explanations help. I'm finally fine tuning my ideas, and I think I'm getting ready to draw up my final plan.

Since it sounds like 1 1/2 dia. is fine, I'll probably buy a threading kit and turn the screws myself - I'm a woodturner anyway - see my website - so I should be able to pull off a nice cylinder relatively easy. Then, should I want a coarser thread, I could pay for them later.

And, I think I'll hold off on custom holdfasts, though I'll consider them whenever I get the quote I've asked for. I figure if I get the ones from HH, and want custom ones later, I'll have two pair.

More q's:

Glue for my top? What kind?

And I'd like to attempt M&T joints in the base - would draw bored be best? Or through tenons and wedges? I'm thinking the draw bored.

And a little bit off the bench subject - how difficult would it be to make a 40" glueing jointer? Just wait for one to come up on Ebay? Just curious.

Thanks for all the help.

David Hammond

My Dad & Me, Inc.


My Dad & Me, Inc.