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More on chisels (*pics)

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More on chisels (*pics)

#1

More on chisels (*pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I enjoyed the thread below on dovetail chisels. Since I had the digital camera out I thought I would take some pictures of my chisels and talk about what I like/dislike with each version.


First the mortise chisels. I have Sorby, LN, and Hirsch (not pictured). The Sorby's served me well, hold an excellent edge, and I like the steel bolster; although this can make a mess of your mallet, and I like the leather shock absorber. However the cross section of steel is a bit lightweight - if you're prying with one of these you could bend them. The LN on the other hand, have a very comfortable handle, and a very thick cross section - there's no bending these. The thick cross section also helps me keep the chisel tracking in a straight line when prying out the waste. I find that the thinner Sorby sometimes twist whey prying, causing the sides of the mortise to get mucked up and wider than I want.



The left three chisels are the mortise chisels in 3/8 and 1/4" widths.

The fourth and fifth chisels in the above photo are my 3/4" bevel edge chisels. First is a chisel that I picked up at an army surplus store. It is one of my favourite chisels. I never really paid attention to it until today, but it has a lot of good things going for it.


The middle two chisels in the above photo are the 3/4" chisels (army surplus on the left, Lie-Nielsen on the right). The army surplus version is thinner in cross section than LN with steeper relief angles on the sides. I can really get this chisel into tight areas. The army surplus handle is socket fit and has leather bolsters on the end. The balance isn't as good as the LN, but the steel gets much sharper than the LN. However, the LN steel stays sharper much longer.

Anyone know the make of this army surplus chisel (cost me $5) ? Here's a picture of the logo - Two Cherries?


Next is the half-inch chisels. In the middle of the photo below are another army surplus chisel (Paffo) and a LN bevel edge. Once again the Paffo is lower profile than the LN. It is well balanced, takes and holds a good edge, and is very light. The LN chisel is just as good, but is thicker in cross-section. I also have a Hirsch carving chisel (not pictured) that is only 1.5 mm in thickness which is really handy for paring between narrow dovetails.


The Paffo handle is very nice. The LN is reminiscent of this shape.


Next is the 3/8" bevel edge chisels. I have a LN, Iyoroi, and Lee-Valley. Here the LN is my clear favourite. The Japanese chisel takes and holds an excellent edge, but is very square in profile so it's not much use for dovetails. However, I do I like it for other uses. The LV yellow handle also does not have enough relief for dovetail work, doesn't take an edge very well, and generally I don't like it. Its only benefit is that it doesn't roll off the table.


For 1/4" chisels I have a Marples, Stanley, and LN. I like all of these for different uses. The LN is the one I reach for when doing fine work. The Stanley is unbalanced, but the steel is excellent and the handle is indestructable. I reach for the Stanley when doing construction work. The Marples is well balanced, takes a good edge, but does not hold the edge very well.


For 1/8" chisels I have an Iyoroi and a LN. Both are excellent chisels, but the Iyoroi cross section is at least twice as high as the LN. This makes it good for chopping narrow mortises, but limits its usefullness in tight spaces.


Finally here's some specialty chisels. First are two Iyoroi dovetail chisels. I love these. They are perfect for chopping out the waste between dovetails. I also have a Marples that I reprofiled for use when chopping dovetails. I hardly use the Marples anymore now that I have the Iyoroi dovetail chisels. Lee-Valley carries a number of Iyoroi chisels, but I don't know why they don't carry the specialty dovetail chisels. Everyone should have one or two.


Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#2

Wow - thanks!

Clay C in Miami

>

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#3

I appreciate you taking your time to share.

Victor Parisian

>

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#4

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>Great pictures and good explanations. Thanks. Could you tell us what size the Iyoroi dovetail chisels are?

Wendell

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#5

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>The Iyoroi dovetail chisels are 9 mm (~3/8") and 6 mm (~1/4").

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#6

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

Todd Stock

>If you are not getting the LNs as sharp as your other chisels, you might try lapping film or other system that will handle the harder steel. I've noticed that my LNs are much sharper coming off the the film than with traditional Scary Sharp wet-or-dry.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#7

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

paul womack

>Anyone know the make of this army surplus chisel (cost me $5)

Yep. That's the shamrock logo of Marples "Hibernia" brand. Given the round bolster (not 8 sided) I'd gues the chisel falls somewhere in the 1965-1975 period.

Marples info

BugBear

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#8

Hirsch mortise chisel

GolfSteve in Calgary

>For those of you who doubt how large the Hirsch mortise chisels really are...on the left is the Hirsch 8 mm chisel, in the middle is the LN 3/8 mortise chisel, and on the right is the LN 3/8" bevel edge chisel.


And here's a side view. LN 3/8 bevel edge chisel in the foreground, LN 3/8 mortise chisel in the middle, and Hirsch 8 mm chisel at the back.


I think the Hirsch chisel could be good. The handle is uncomfortably large for me, but the length gives you a real good reference for keeping the chisel square to the board. This particular Hirsch chisel is garbage - the steel shank is parallelogram shaped (not trapezoidal, not rectangular, but parallelogram), and I don't feel like taking the time to fix it.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#9

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>The LN's get as sharp as all of the rest of my chisels, except for this one army surplus (Marples?) chisel.

I don't know why, but this one chisel just takes an incredible edge. It will lose that edge after a minute of use, but for that first minute you get incredible shavings.

I use Norton waterstones for sharpening. I've never tried lapping film, but definetely did not like scary sharp.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#10

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Nice exposition! Probably, few folks have enough brands around to make the comparisons you made.

Would it not be correct to call those Sorbys sash mortise chisels, since they are wider than they are thick?

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#11

Re: Hirsch mortise chisel

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>You'd need a fork lift and a trip hammer to run that one :^) Thanks for the comparisons. The Paffo is interesting, and demonstrates that there are no monopolies on good design sense. Any info on the company? I've never heard of it.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#12

Re:Greenley

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Your mystery chisel is a Greenley. I have a partial set of four of these and they are my all time favorite of all the chisels I've used (followed by my L-N and Sorby London Pattern). I wish I had a complete set of the Greenleys. You probably can find the Greenley mark somewhere on the socket.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#13

Re: Hirsch mortise chisel

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Hi William. I have no info on Paffo and they didn't show up on a google search.

I suspect the chisel is 50's era.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#14

Re:Greenlee?

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I couldn't find Greenley, but did find a bunch of Greenlee chisels on Google. None of the links included a picture of the logo.

I bought this chisel about 4 years ago. There were buckets full of these chisels, all covered in 1/8" of cosmoline. The handles were sold separately.

I haven't been back to the store for over a year. I'll stop by next chance I get and see if there's any left.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#15

Re: More on chisels (*pics) *LINK*

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Don,

Yup, you're correct.

Lee Valley calls these "Sorby Registered Mortise Chisels", and describes their lightweight nature.

I didn't know this until today, but Sorby also makes a "Heavy Duty Sash Mortise Chisel" that looks a lot heavier, but is still described as a sash mortise chisel. This looks like it would be more comparable to the LN or the Hirsch.


Heavy Duty Sash Mortise Chisel

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#16

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Oh, good grief. I am never going to get the nomenclature straight. I never have figured out "registered." I thought that "firmer" referred to a bench chisel with straight sides (no bevel). When does a "heavy-duty" sash chisel cease its sashness, and become an ordinary mortise chisel?

Arrgh!

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#17

Paffo chisel

Wolfgang Jordan, Munich (Germany)

>Hi,

I also was interested in this maker, because I have a plane iron with this same mark. Recently I came across a book about the German tool industry in the 1940s. It features long lists and pictures of the marks used by tool manufacturers, and one of them is this HPR mark. Paffo seems to be the trade mark of Hermann Paffenhoff in Remscheid/Germany. He is listed as maker of chisels and plane irons.

Steve, can I use the picture of your Paffo chisel for my homepage/list of German manufacturers?

Wolfgang


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Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#18

Re: Paffo chisel

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Wolfgang. Please go ahead and use the picture. I'm glad to know about the chisel's background.

Steven

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#19

Re:LN vs. Woodcraft vs. Grizzly vs. Toolsforworkin

Stephen Dalfollo-Daley

>Thanks so much for posting...i came across this thread off of yahoo while searching more info on the japanese chisels....I very much appreciate the info, I suspect that others would find the message would do well to be added to the articles list....maybe i need to rethink 'turning japanese'

Let's see...

LN chisels are....5 for $250 or $50 each (gosh, the savings!)....full set of 9 (1/8" to 3/4") would be $450 ($50/chisel)

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=bescset

a 12-piece set of Iyoroi Oire-Nomi Bench Chisels from toolsforworkingwood.com are $318 (1.5mm to 42mm; with the 48mm available for $39.11) for a 13 chisel set: $27.49/chisel

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-JACH512.XX

woodcraft sells japanese chisels that don't specifically say they are handmade but appear to be similar to either the above or the grizzly chisels below....3mm-36mm for $299.95 ($29.99/chisel for 10) and they have a 42mm and 48mm for 49.99 each or $33.33/chisel if you get their set of 12

then there is the $129 set of 10 japanese chisels from grizzley.com 'hand finished' 1/8" to 1.5" would be $12.90/chisel

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G7102

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2005/main/101.cfm?

Can anyone provide any comparison between the diffeent Japanese chisel sets? Are the woodcraft chisels the same as Tools for working wood? or are they just over priced copies of the cheap grizzly chisels?

I very much like the feel/balance of a japanese chisel, but need to get a LN in my hand...thanks for any feedback...

Any feedback appreciated.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#21

Jack Guzman from Maine

Re:LN vs. Woodcraft vs. Grizzly vs. Toolsforworkin *LINK*

Jack Guzman from Maine

>The Grizzlys are probably not the best but you usually get what you pay for. The LN chisels are worth the money. Joel at Tools For Working Wood posts here and has a reputation for selling top quality products.

Jack


review on grizzly Japanese chisels

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#22

Griz is no worst than Jet or Delta

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>Just less expensive.

I've had a 1023ZX for 4 years and will buy Griz again.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#23

Re: Griz is no worst than Jet or Delta

Glenn Madsen

>WRT Power tools: OK. Many have posted the same, positive, experience.

WRT spiffy, once in a blue moon, pass on to the grandkids hand chisels: No. Those who have tested them believe them to be _at best_ a poor value proposition.

Disclaimer: I love my LN chisels, planes and handsaws.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#24

dovetail chisel questions...

Dan Moening

>I really appreciate your in depth post...lots of useful information here.

I've been interested in dovetail chisels for sometime now.

You stated that you use them to "chop" out the waste. I was under the impression they were for paring. The edge is strong enough for chopping? Does the steep side cause any issue when forcing the waste out against the tails?

Thanks again for sharing all this...

Dan.

Re: More on chisels (*pics)

#25

Re: dovetail chisel questions...

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I remove the bulk of the waste with a coping/fret saw. I chop out the last mm or two of waste using the bevel edge chisel. I use a mallet, but it is pretty light chopping. The edge is definetely strong enough for this type of work.

"Does the steep side cause any issue when forcing the waste out against the tails? ??? I don't understand what you're asking about. When there's only a mm or so of waste to chop out, the bevelled edge fits up nicely against the tail. When you chop downwards, the small piece of waste is just pushed out of the way and doesn't interfere with the tail.

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