Old Widow Women

Ummm Greg...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I would appreciate you NOT quoting in this manner.

I feel Todd did nothing wrong here. That where my comments were coming from.

I said nothing derogatory and I don't like you using my comments in this manner.

In the future would you please not drag me into your posts.

Thank you, Scott

Re: Somthing tells me...not me

Dennis

>Some people really don't know Todd, she set the price .........end of conversation and for those that think you made a big profit, do the math folks, bet you will not see that as replacing your current job.

I think this is just the "uneducated consumers" talking about something they "think they know"

Iam with you Todd,you did nothing wrong and that widow was happy,she didn't have to deal with what you will to make a few bucks.

Dennis,who lets the seller set the price every time.

remove nospam for email

Re: Bartering rules...

Paul M. in San Diego

>I'm a "bleeding heart liberal" that usually sides with the underdog in just about any confrontation. But in this case, I cannot see how Todd has done any wrong. This went unnoticed while being filtered through my blue-tinted glasses (G), so I'm surprised that this took on the proportions that it did.

I can't see how I would have behaved any differently if I were in Todd's shoes. Heck, he even patched her stairs as a gesture of goodwill!

Making a living in the US

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Todd has a hardnosed, politically incorrect way of putting everything. Todd also has a flair for tale telling--some of it worthy of Mark Twain--that makes us think that his life is one long grand adventure. It almost makes us believe him when he says he 'ain't ever worked a day since graduating high school, etc etc'. We begin to believe in the $1 Disston No. 12. But gentle people, there's no such thing as a $1 or $5 No. 12, and there's no such thing as a $100 tool-buying trip to Philadelphia.

My take on this is that Todd works very hard and works very diligently at what he does, and he's gotten good at it. He better be good at it, because there's no salary draw, no annual bonus, no profit sharing, no health plan, no 401k matching, no vacation, no sick leave, no paid 13 Holidays a year, and no retirement plan. No credit union. There's no safety net. Hunter gatherer, eat what you kill, and you better not get sick.

When we start getting highminded about how much Todd ought to pay the widow-woman, let's remember that he's not just paying for his trip to Philadelphia, he's gotta pay for his time, house, car, mileage, insurance, food, utilities, selling expenses, Christmas gifts, vacation, sick, savings, retirement--and a bunch of other stuff I left out--in short, he's got to pay for everything from the difference between what he buys for and what he sells at. I put myself in that Darwinian situation, and I don't want it thanks.

Nother thing. If we're gonna upbraid Todd for not paying the widow-woman more than she asked for, let's find out how much the seamstresses got paid for that $60 T-shirt or pair of khakis from Nordstroms; or how much the miners got paid for the iron and bronze in that LN4-1/2.

Business kinda has its own rules that bind everyone. We might want to examine what happens in our own food chain before coming down hard on Todd. I don't know Todd, other than a very satisfactory Ebay purchase.

Wiley

Re: Making a living in the US

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Well said Wiley.JR

Second that.

Bob Hackett

>

Re: leather reining plate?...

John Aniano in NJ...

>Todd,

You said you got a "Great leather reining plate" with your gloatable stash. Is that the cast-iron (or is it steel?) tool with the pivoting halves and the holes in it? I have one stamped "Osborne" just like in the pic you posted, right above the Stanley 55 plane. Mine has nicely smooth and tapered holes in it of different sizes and has feet for holding it onto a benchtop. How were these tools used? I always guessed this tool made squarish leather lengths into roundish leather lengths, sort of like a metal drawplate. Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

John

Re: Bartering rules...

Mike G.

>I like to think I'm an honest person. I try to do what's right. When the person who's checking me out at the store gives me too much change back, I correct them and give it back even though I could keep with noone the wiser until they total up their drawer at the end of the day. I try to live by the golden rule as I'm sure others here do, too.

But, that being said, I don't believe there's anyone on this board or anyone who's posted on this thread, me included, who wouldn't have jumped on that same deal. If you say otherwise, well, all I can say is you're a better person than me Pinocchio.

Mike G. in SC

Re: i agree,make that a "yay"

Dennis

>

Right

Todd Hughes

>yes that was what they were used for.Traditionaly the tool for Harness makers who used them to make, well Reins.Work fine for making round leather belts like for the old time lathes and machines too. I have had more then a few over the years and some are made to be mounted on the bench,[like yours it sounds like] while others have a base that you hold in a vice. Have had big ones that open up into 3 sections with 2 rows of holes.An Osborne one would be worth a premium, seems like Osborne stuff is at an all time high on ebay right now for some reason.

When I used to make sheaths for the knives I made I made a particular type that hung around your neck so I would make the leather cord.Just cut the strap out soak in water and then pull it though a bolt header,[metal plate with a hole in it] worked well. Had a rein plate or a couple but never fooled looking for them.....Todd

How much would she have had to pay to fix her step

Rob Bourgeois, NW Mississippi

>Think about it, he fixed her step. Maybe he should send her a bill.

She set the price he paid it and didnt try to lower it. If an auction house or dealer comes in she will not see much more than what she got from Todd. Besides Todd now has to clean the tools, post the ads, run the ads answering questions about the tools and then mail them in order to make the money he thinks he will( no sure thing). If he charges a hourly rate on those things he doesnt make a penny compared to his "day "job.

I dont know Todd and but honestly the people gripping sound jealous to me.

Re: How much would she have had to pay to fix her

Dean in Burlington

>Yes....you got me...I'm jealous. Everybody just finished explaining how hard he has to work just to make a few bucks and con an old woman grieving from her husband's death. But I'm jealous while I'm sitting in my high paid office job in my cushy chair doing hardly nothing and collecting my LN planes.

PS. And what's with this crap that it's ok to con somebody if you work hard?

Re: How much would she have had to pay to fix her

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>Come on. None of us are jealous - at least not enough to snipe at Todd H. Sheesh!

Here's my final take...

I think Todd was fair, if...

Had other tool dealers been allowed to also bid on the items, the price he paid was reasonably close to that the others would have offered. This is the whole purpose behind open bidding systems - keeps everyone fair and above board. (You know what happens when the Gvmt gets stuff done without competative bidding - bad things happen. It's just too tempting to not abuse.)

If other tool dealers would have paid vastly more, then the lady was stupid for not knowing the value and ensuring that she got the best deal available, but Todd would also be guilty IMHO. However, IMO, someone elses stupidity shouldn't relegate my ethics and concience to the back seat. (My behavior shouldn't be dependant on someone else.)

I have stated elsewhere in this thread that things seemed to me to be unfair, but that perhaps I misunderstand the details, or that Todd left some out. I also really know next to nothing on tool resale.

It seems to me that most of the arguments made here that "Todd was fair" completely leave out the thought process that might argue she got fair value. Most simply say - "She got what she asked for. If that was too low, it's the lady's fault for being stupid/ignorant." That's a pretty sucky moral compass if you ask me.

I do and have pointed out to vendors I deal with that the price quoted (by a professional no less) looked wrong - it was just too low. In one case, I sent the sales rep looking *twice* to find a very large error on his part. When he found it, he was very thankful to me - but I didn't get a cent out of it - in fact, it cost me more when the "right" figure came out in the bid.

What I did get was a nice feeling that I had really gone out of my way to assist someone, and treated them the way I wanted to be treated.

I'd rather be poorer and have treated people right, than be a rich scumbag. (And I'm not implying anything about *anyone* else here. Simply a statement about my own behavior and feelings!)

Cheers,

Greg

Re: How much would she have had to pay to fix her

Todd Hughes

>I wonder what you guys would do if you were looking on ebay and just saw a nice stanley no.1 listed that was just listed with a buy it now of $25?...Email the person selling it and tell them it was priced to low? Email them to ask how old they are? Maybe quize them to see if they are feable or just a slow head?....I'm sure you wouldn't just "Buy it Now" now would you since it wouldn't be the right thing to do......Todd , thinking about that guy on ebay with the 603 in the tool box he emailed

Re: How much would she have had to pay to fix her

Todd Hughes

>..."Setting in my high paid office job in my cushy chair doing hardly nothing and collecting my LN planes...."

Well if I WAS wrong on this and go to Hell when I die I'll know what my punishment will be now.....Todd , Who doesn't thinks he works hard at all

I think everyone has pretty well...

Ted Owen, Moderator

>covered the subject, don't you think?

It's a legitimate area for discussion, with valid points on both sides, but it's also fertile territory for personal attack.

Best, Ted

MORAL EQUILIBRIUM RESTORED TO THE UNIVERSE!!!!!

cooper suter

>If it is any help to the karma of the greater tool hoarding community, I overpayed TWICE today for tools!

I did this as a completely selfless service to "give back" a little of what that scourge of mankind Todd "The Tinman" Hughes has taken.

I should have been out buying guifts for my loved ones, or earning a living, but NO....., I GAVE!

The 1st instance involved an A4 Stanley that I bought out of a junk shop. I was quoted $15 by the owner, I only had a $50, he only had $30 change, I let him keep the difference (well, actually I started to let him keep it, but ended-up taking another $5 item I didn't really want. But I TRIED to over pay).

The second instance was was one of those now infamous OWL's (old widow ladies).

Nothing I really wanted at all, but she was trying to just get rid of it. Stuff would of ended-up in the trash. Offered $5 for a Disston #76 w/a cracked handle, she was still lamenting being stuck w/the remainder, so I gave her another $5 for a basic box of around the house tool junk, hammers, crescent wrench, yankee, ax, hatchet, etc. kind of stuff I'm swimming in already, and don't want, I'll make a few bucks, but I did it for HER.

Coop

(who will sleep tonight w/his head on the softest pillow imaginable,.....my conscience;) )

Sorry Ted.......

Cooper suter

>......I hit "post message" for my post above, and when I returned to the list, I see you'd issued a stop work order on the thread while I was typing.

No offense intended.

Coop

Re: How much would she have had to pay to fix her

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>Todd, I've given my opinion about what happened. If you want to make me understand how your costs are higher than I anticipate etc, then I'd be glad to hear them.

But making the point that "everyone does it" isn't very pursuasive to me.

If everyone was robbing banks and killing people it wouldn't make it right either. (Not that getting a gloat is comparable to robbing banks and killing people.)

I've never said what you did was wrong. I *did* say that it appeared so to me, and offered some ideas that might explain how my perception was wrong. Virtually no-one, including you, has taken much of a stab at correcting the "facts" so I might stand corrected.

As for my personal actions? Well, in the post you're replying to, I did state that I told a vendor I deal with their price was wrong, *twice* - that it favored me significantly. And the vendor was in a vastly stronger position to know than the old lady.

I'm by no means perfect, but I do try in my own life to let people know when they're making a large mistake. Sometimes it results in a "Thanks!" other times a kick in the shins. But so goes life.

Again, if somehow I, and others, misunderstand or got the wrong impression about the deal, and the old lady really did get fair value for her stuff I'd be more than glad to hear it.

However the impression in your first post was that you got an incredible deal and were trying to make off as best and quickly as you could. Perhaps that's just the lore of the story, and exaggeration etc. If so, just say so.

The sign of a honorable and good business deal is that at the end, if *all* parties knew *all* the facts that *all* would still be as pleased. If revelation of the facts makes someone much less happy, then you can be sure that someone took at least some advantage of the situation. Where the "old widow woman" deal falls in this scale, I don't really know. My impression wasn't good, but as I've said a dozen times before, perhaps my impression is simply wrong.

I'm not at all trying to start a flame fest. I'm more than glad to give you the benefit of the doubt. Further, what you do in your life is your business - regardless of my approval. You don't and will never have to answer to me.

I'm sorry that you feel picked on. I can understand you would - I probably would too. Sorry for making you the lone black cow that the crows are pecking the eyes out of... This thread has appealed more me for the discussion of general ethics rather than this specific deal.

Best wishes Todd. I and others wish you no ill will.

Cheers,

Greg

Re: Old Widow Women

steve knight

>Don't worry todd will be a old man someday too and what comes around goes around. things tend to even out in the end.

Well written, Wiley!

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

That's OK, Coop...

Ted Owen, Moderator

>that happens a lot. : )

Happy holidays.

Best, Ted