Old Widow Women

Nice haul &...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>You suck.

Scott, needs to find out about this clean livin' way of life...

Re: clean living

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I guess if it takes clean living to make a haul like that I'm not interested after all ;)

Todd O don't look!

Ernie Miller Topeka

>Todd O is going to have spastic fits when he sees that pile of chisels. I can see him now glossy eyed and druling out the sid of his mouth.

My kind of widow for sure

Dennis

>Looks like great find,and who knows what else may show up with her. Guess i need to watch the "bay" for a while, just in case.........hehe

Dennis,who is waiting for it to warm up in so Fla

remove nospam for email

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>I'm laughing, I'm crying, I'm sweating, and I feel chilly all at the same time!!

Son of a sea bisuit Todd, what a haul!

Even with that teaser of a small picture you posted I count 5 chisels that I'd like!!

Gotta go, fingers are numb, things are all swirly, eyes seem to be foggy, and I'm getting slobber all over the room!!

I do think that you should of titled your post EXTREME!Gloat to better warn us of this haul. Haven't heard from Bob or Jack yet, sure to hope they're all right. ;~)

Todd O.

Sorry Todd, it's only a gloat if there's enough...

Cooper Suter

>..... for a second trip.

You gave-up your amatuer status when you passed a thousand Ebay rating, & on the pro circuit it'd only be officially gloatable after the 1st full truckload.

Really though, congradulations!

Isn't it a blast to go digging in "virgin ground" so to speak? (no offense intended to the widow lady)

It ads to the fun when you run into a character to boot.

Makes me miss digging like I used to, I intend to get back on it after the new year though.

I shouldn't have let gainful employment get between me and junking for as long as it did this year.

Going on calls like this can make anyday Christmas, it's astounding (and sometimes discusting) the stuff that can be found in the basements and garages of America.

If you liked this, you really should consider soliciting like I do, plenty of dog leads, but regular enough, you hit them like this.

Coop

Re: Old Widow Women

Dean in Burlington

>I'm sorry....I don't get the same warm fuzzy feeling when reading this thread. What I see is someone that took advantage of an elderly woman. If you thought it was worth $250 then why didn't you give here that....then you didn't even give her the $75 dollars for the other thing after you ripped her off.

This is no different then how used car salesmen treat the elderly and don't we call them sleezy.

Well......

Todd Hughes

>I guess if you were buying a used car at the car lot you would give the salesman more then was on the window sticker if he was above a certain age...eh? My Dad used to sell cars years ago and don't ever remember him saying anybody ever did this to often.

I paid her what she wanted and what she asked for so certainly don't see how I did anything wrong, just like when you buy that used car if you don't pay them more then they are asking you are not doing anything wrong either. She was happy and I CERTAINLY was happy , I think when both people leave the deal happy it was a good deal for all.....OH I never thought the junk was "worth" $250 I said that was what i was going to offer, I was a figuring it was worth over $1,500 going by what I could hope to get for it when I sell it.Don't think many people would be selling much stuff if they paid what they thought it was "Worth" when they bought it.....Todd

Bartering rules...

David Miller from Iowa

>the world over stipulate the Seller states their price frist. I see no problem if she got what she wanted for them.

Re: Well......

Dean in Burlington

>Ah...but a car salesman is educated in the product. Therefore he tries to sell it for more than it is worth. So it's the other way around....if you pay the sticker price than you are getting ripped off. Car salesmen try to take advantage of people who are not educated in the product...like the elderly. Your elderly lady was not educated in the product and you're right, she may be happy with the $100 and it's her fault. I realized the $250 was what you thought you could pay and still make a healthy profit.

It's a tough call. I might have done the same thing if I was in your shoes....but I wouldn't have come on the forum bragging about it...or got a good nights sleep. But that's just me.

Anyways have a good x-mas with your new/old tools.

Re: Bartering rules...

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>she set the price, and it is not todds fault if she herself wasn't educated in what the tools where worth. She could of asked around I'm sure.

Now had she asked Todd what they where worth and he said $100 THAN perhaps you might have a case to call him names, as she would of been in the position of educatig herself.

As I've said, and so has Todd, if the seller don't know the value of what they are selling, is it the responsibility of the buyer to tell them.

Dean,I know that the issue gets real sensative when it comes to ripping off the elderly,and I know where you're coming from, but she didn't sound like no feeble minded person to me.

Todd O.

Who once bought a #140 for $3 at a pawn shop and didn't feel the least bit guilty, nor when I score anything else at a flea market on the cheap, such as $25 Mint 78's

Re: Well......

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Probably not a good idea to do things that keep you awake with guilt at night. Todd, otoh, is a real wheeler/dealer, who probably gets great pleasure from the deal itself; and he's good at it. It's a major difference between a salesman mentality and everybody else.

Pam

Have to agree with Dean...

Greg Phillips, Berrien Springs, MI

>I read this thread yesterday and was thoroughly disgusted. It generated so much negative emotion in me that I decided not to respond right away. I'm glad to see that Dean spoke out.

There is a huge difference between getting the deal of a lifetime on the net or at a flea-market and taking advantage of an elderly widow. You clearly ripped her off, Todd. When I first read your post, I thought you took her for $150, now you are admitting that you paid her $100 for $1500 worth of stuff. I would think you'd be ashamed to admit it, let alone gloat about it. This poor woman clearly had absolutely no idea what her late husband's tools were worth. To make matters worse, this story is told just a few days before Christmas - a time when the widows in our communities could really use our love and support.

In my opinion, Todd, there's not much difference between what you did and what is done every day by scammers who prey on the elderly. My mother is a widow, and I pray that she never has dealings with someone who would take advantage of her.

I'm challenging you do rethink your position on this one, Todd. There is still time to make things right. Either return the stuff and advise her to sell it for what it is worth or, better yet, sell it yourself for $1500 and send her the check for Christmas. If you do, you'll earn my respect (and I'd be willing to bet there are more like me), her respect, and most importantly, you'll walk away with your dignity intact. If you don't, then I guess Scott Burr's words are truer than he imagined.

Think about it.

Greg

Re: Well......

Todd Hughes

>Guess I'm old fashioned but I think Anyone that sells somthing or for that matter buys somthing should be educated as to what they are selling or buying. I know I try to be and if I sold somthing too cheap,[and I have!] I certainly have no one to blaim but myself. Now if I had bought those Fire wood planes she had priced at $35 would I have been the one taken advantage of? I don't think so since I would have done it of my own free will.

Actually if you think about it I think she made out like a bandit....Sold somthing she hadn't even bought[her husband had] didn't even know she owned, or didn't even want. She could have done it in her PJs befor breakfast too while I had to get up way befor daylight drive 100 miles, dig and root, carry heavy boxes and not to mention still go to the considerable trouble to sell it.....Geez sort of wish now I had offered $75 for them and had her carry the heavy box up the steps ! .....Todd

Your Joking

Todd Hughes

>You can't be serious! I didn't take advantage of anybody, she invited me into her house,[which I will tell you was much bigger and nicer then mine!] to buy some tools and I did for the price she told me she wanted.I didn't tell her what to sell them for or force her to sell them and certainly didn't scam her since i gave her what she wanted.If she didn't want to sell them she didn't have to[like she didn't want to sell the book binding tools and didn't] or she could have gave me a high price like she did on the wood planes and chest but she didn't.She gave me the price she wanted to get and she got it.I fail to see how it was any different if I bought them off some young punk at the flea market. She was having sombody sell on ebay the larger book binding machines and she could have had them sell these tools to I guess but she didn't choose to go to that much trouble.I really had nothing to do with any of this. Again she asked me to buy some tools, gave me a price and I paid it. Period. Now maybe if you were a Tool or Antique dealer you could make a living by paying people you buy stock from what you will be selling it for but I find it kind of difficult, but I am open to hearing how to do it.

I found your post insulting ,not to me, I could care less about that or earning anybodys respect[!], but more so to the woman by insinuating that she was to feable to take care of herself.Certainly not how I saw her!.....Todd

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

Greg Phillips, Berrien Springs, MI

>"I found your post insulting ,not to me, I could care less about that or earning anybodys respect[!], but more so to the woman by insinuating that she was to feable to take care of herself. Certainly not how I saw her!"

You found my post insulting? Hmm... You titled your post "Old Widow Women" (insulting from the start) and refer to the lady as "old woman" throughout while painting a picture of a woman who is absolutely clueless and thinks that chisels are used "to scrape things."

You were insulted because I made her seem feeble? Pardon me, but you were the one that said, "Looked over and the old woman has a big box full of tools that had to weigh 50 lbs and is trying to carry it up the steps for me! Had to yell at her to put it down and don't do that again....Before leaving I nailed down a loose step going down into the basement for her that I had seen." You don't make her out to be very capable.

People will go to great lengths to defend their questionable behavior. You're starting to sound like one of them.

Greg

You poor guy! Cry me a river...

Greg Phillips, Berrien Springs, MI

>

Re: Your Joking

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>I think the largest issue for me is the amount of mark-up seems unfair.

Old folks often make decisions that are not the smartest. There's no legal impediment for taking full advantage of that short-coming, but for me at least, there is a moral one.

Perhaps I'm just a softie who just needs to harden up and learn to make a buck where I can, but I don't think so.

I understand that you have put a fair bit of effort (and cost) into what you got and will invest more before the deal is done.

You and each one of us has to decide what is fair.

I don't feel it's fair for the CEO of many big corps to make even hundreds of millions of dollars and then cut benefits and wages for all the underlings - and then get a bigger bonus because the company made more profit.

There has to be some moral judgment on what your effort was in relation to your profit.

I think the concern is that you'll spend a few hours of time, and be ahead say $1500. Is your time worth say, $300-400 an hour? Would you say that if you knew that your "profit" was coming at the expense of someone who didn't drive the sharpest

deal, but probably couldn't or shouldn�t be expected to do so?

You'll have to answer these questions for yourself. Presenting all the details to us is difficult, and perhaps we misunderstand some of the more critical ones.

However, I too felt that if you really could get say $1500 for the tools, and you're not going to invest very significant time or hundreds of dollars preparing them for sale, that it would be more fair to share a greater portion of the proceeds with the lady.

I'd hate to have anyone get a 10% of actual value deal on my stuff should I die and my spouse not know the value of it. I'd hope that someone would be kind enough to "inform" her of the real value, or offer a greater percentage of the "profit."

You, obviously, have to do as you see fit. Given how you have portrayed the situation, IMHO, you were less than fair, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable doing what you have done.

Again, perhaps your portrayal is superficial and conveys the wrong details of the situation. If so, then I might come to a different conclusion were the whole situation and details given to me.

In short, I treat people the way I *want* to be treated - not just the way I can get away with. I hope you do the same.

Cheers,

Greg

Re: Have to agree with Todd...

Ted in Mpls

>How much would the widow have received if Todd hadn't driven there and given her exactly what she asked for? My guess is most tools in that situation just rust in the basement until they aren't good for anything but sitting on the wall at Cracker Barrel. Yes he passed by an opportunity to be generous, but she seems to be better off for his arrival.

You gotta figure most gloatable finds originated with some widow getting taken. I propose that we start an "Old Tools Fund", we can all donate the difference between what we paid for a tool and what it's worth and the proceeds can go to support widows in Todd's neck of the woods.

-ted

Advice for the future

joel

>I'd hate to have anyone get a 10% of actual value deal on my stuff should I die and my spouse not know the value of it. I'd hope that someone would be kind enough to "inform" her of the real value, or offer a greater percentage of the "profit."

I get call from widows all the time. They have no idea what the stuff is worth, have no idea who to call (and I get called just because my sites are high on google) and trying to clear up an estate is emotically trying and many just want to be done with it.

(incidently I never ever buy from these folks - I send them to various auctioneers I think give a fair price. and give them a few cautionary notes)

but the reason for my post is your comment "I'd hope that someone would be kind enough to "inform" her of the real value"

you are 100% right. the person to do the informing is you. A friend of mine, a major collector says that next to the phone, along with the emergcy numbers for the doctor and the hospital is the phone number of the auctioneer he wants his wife to use to sell his collection.

It's good advice. My wife has an idea what my tool collection is worth, the phone numbers of who to call, and names of friends who can be counted on to facilitate the process. I'm on the call list of a few friends of mine.

All it takes is a few minutes to write down a few names and then tell someone the list exists, and then every few years or so update the information.

It's not just the money - who wants to see their stuff in a dumpster?

Somthing tells me...

Todd Hughes

>the people that expect me to get up at 4:30 in the morning, drive 100 miles, get some tools off some woman that wanted me to buy them, list them on ebay, sell them, ship them and then cut her a check for what they sold for while they may be keen on telling me what I should do with my $ won't be giving her any of THIER Money !...Hmmm?...Todd

I did...

Todd Hughes

>When I used to sell tools at my house or at shows how I wanted to be treated was to be paid the price I was asking for somthing.Many people did talk me down some but when they paid me what I wanted I was happy. I would never expect anybody to pay me more then the price I gave them,[and no one ever did!]....I think I did treat the woman seller as I would want to be treated...I paid her what she asked. ....Todd

Re: Armchair quarterbacks

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I'm sure if we wanted it, Todd could probably send us an address, and those people who really want to give away money to someone who obviously has a lot more than they need could all send a check to the person they feel so sorry for. I prefer to send my charitable contributions to somewhere where I know it is needed.

Imagine what would happen to the whole tool collecting world if all the dealers had to pay 50% or 75% of retail for their stock. The whole market would be gone; they would get jobs doing something that actually pays, and all the old tools people have would be hauled to the landfill because there would be no market for them. If you really think finding an occasional tool that you can actually make some money on is a great life, try selling tools for a living. Walk a few yards in the other guys shoes, and see how it feels.

Re: Advice for the future

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>I'd agree with this Joel.

However, as one ages, your "go-to" friends also age, and die. Your circle of friends shrinks and perhaps goes away entirely. You don't have the mobility, ability or energy to stay in touch with them, or make new contacts for who would be in the know.

There's no good excuse for not doing it, but there are lots of understandable reasons.

It's not a perfect world, I understand. Each person *ought* to do their own homework and determine the realistic value of these items. But they often don't, as we can see here, and this brings us to the delimma.

My idealistic self says that I ought to do my best to live up to the values and morals that I want to be treated by. (Would you feel the same about the deal if you did know all the facts - not just when you thought you'd gotten or given a few bucks...)

It's easy to be law abiding when the heavily armed policeman is standing 25 feet away. The real test comes when there's no one around and you know that your actions will never result in getting caught.

In the same way, the real test of character for tool junkies, IMHO, comes when you meet a truely vulnerable and uneducated seller or buyer.

Note: I'm speaking here in hypothetical terms, not specifically to the details of Todd H's case.

Cheers,

Greg