H&Rs *LINK*

Well...

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I don't have any skewed H&R's. Is it true that the skew helps them track? Or does it hurt them?

The skew should push the plane sideways, just like a skewed rabbet. If it were fenced, the skew would force the plane against the fence which does help it track. But if you are using the plane free hand, I'd think the skew would hurt you.

I cut some shallow moldings freehand a few months ago. I had never done it before and it worked surprisingly, encouragingly well. But I don't think I could have done it with skewed H&Rs. The piece I'm thinking of is really rough, made in a single day. I need to post some pictures of that.

So I'm not sure I'd pay extra for skewed H&R. Also, I see no technical reason to have matching planes in each pair or a set from a single maker.

Adam

No match, no good

jimreed@marietta

>My experience with H&Rs has been limited to less than 100 planes and less than 20 feet of moulding. Even with this limited experience, I found such great differences in sizes from different mfgs that I would not waste time trying to build up a harliquin set. It would be too hit or miss and there would be gaps in the set. Consistent pitch would be another problem. You need to develop a rhythm while making the moulding and you need the consistency of a SET to do this (in my humble opinion).

We don't want no stinkin' skews...

jimreed@marietta

>I have a few skewed and a few non skewed. Not enough for a scientific test, but it seems that the skew keeps the plane going straight. I hold the plane and use my fingers as a fence. That technique helps me to keep the distance constant because my fingers are sensitive to the slightest change. Maybe the skew helps keep the force going in the same direction???

Ahhh, I see, Thank you gentlemen!

Dan Moening

>

cabinet planes vs carpenter planes

Jerome Bias

>Is there a way to easly tell the difference between a carpenter's set of hollow and round planes from a cabinet maker's set?

This vacation thing is pretty cool. I can actually get into the shop and participate on the messageboard.

Jerome Bias

Re: No match, no good

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>You're right, Jim; but some vendors will make up the sets for you with careful matching, e.g. Tony Murland.

Pam

Re: H&Rs

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I would bet the average 18th century shop ... figured out if for a particular job if it was cheaper to get a molding plane vs using H+Rs.

Right. Makes sense.

In the SEaton chest IIRC there were a set of H+Rs and no complex molders. After all the set was for a guy just starting out.

The Seaton chest inludes square ogees, astragals, and tiny beads (for cock beads).

While I agree with the sentiment(s) expressed we can't use the Seaton chest to validate our hypotheses. The Seaton chest was probably complete, not a starter set. The planes comtained were probably all that were required to make the veneered Sheraton/Pyfe style furniture popular at the time.

H&R are okay when sticking a single board. If you have to stick multiple boards with the same profile...

adam

Re: H&Rs

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.

>I think of hollows and rounds as a roughing in tool. I start on a molding with gouges or hollows and rounds because they are fairly simple to sharpen, then finish the profile off with a complex molder, that saves the tedious effort of sharpening them.

Jim

Re: Thanks Adam. I Had no Idea.

Steve Wargo

>

Re: cabinet planes vs carpenter planes

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>A pretty good indication is the pitch, or bedding angle, of the iron. 45� works fine for straight grained, common softwoods. Higher bedding angles would be preferred by cabinetmakers, especially those working with figured hardwoods.

Note also that a carpenter would have less use for a snipe-billed plane. Flat bottom quirks are fine for painted work, since the bottom of the quirk fills with paint, anyhow, and cutters that make flat bottom quirks are easier to maintain. It makes you wonder about modern router bit manufacturers, whose quirked profiles (side beads, for example) are always flat bottomed. These should not be used on reproductions, if you desire any degree of historical accuracy.

I agree.

Steve Wargo

>I have a complete half set of skewed Prestons at 50 degress and they track excellent. I stumbled upon this set, but if I had to purchase another set I'd also look for the skewed 50 deg versions. I usually cut everything free hand and only feel the plane "creep" from the skew when using the larger sizes, ie. 12-18. But most of my work is smaller casework, so I don't worry much about that. In my previous post I stated that I didn't think there was much that couldn't be cut with a half set and snipe bills, but I do use more than that.

Re: No match, no good

paul womack

>AFAIK A "proper" harlequin set is composed of H&R pairs.

It is deemed to be important that the each "H" matches its corresponding "R". Uneven steps in the sizing are less important, within reason.

I'm afraid I forget the reason for this assertion.

A fully matched set is (clearly?) the best, but not neccessarily essential.

A bit like a plane sole flat to a 1/10 thou :-)

BugBear

And also

jimreed@marietta

>I think side bead planes > 1/2" are also probably carpenter planes. Think large crown moulding for dining room.

Re: No match, no good

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bugbear

It is deemed to be important that the each "H" matches its corresponding "R". Uneven steps in the sizing are less important, within reason.

I'm afraid I forget the reason for this assertion.

You forget because no reason has ever been given. Michael Dunbar started this myth in his excellent book "Restoring, Tuning, and Using...", but failed to give any technical reason for this.

It may be that one plane can be used to repair another. It may be that matched pairs could be used for rule joints. Maybe these are good enough reasons, but I've never heard them offered, and I'm not convinced they are compelling enough to pass on individual planes at boot sales or flea markets.

Adam

Time

jimreed@marietta

>I have used H&Rs from a matched set and I have used oddballs. I like the matched planes because they behave the same way on the same piece of wood. That saves time by not having to alter technique. Matched pairs saves time because you develop a sense of size while using the set and can reach for the appropriate plane without measuring or doing trial cuts. I think arbitrarily matched planes can be used to make satisfactory mouldings, just add some time and bother. YMMV

Compelling reasons?

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>"...I'm not convinced they are compelling enough to pass on individual planes at boot sales or flea markets."

You mean there ARE compelling reasons (besides price and rust-to-actual steel ratio) to pass on individual planes? That must be my mistake.

It's been very interesting to follow this discussion, in case I ever stumble over some H&R planes. Woodies are extremely rare here on this part of the Left Coast, since the majority of the population growth occurred after the heyday of the wooden plane. I keep hoping, though.

Re: Compelling reasons?

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>Warpage might be more compelling, even, than rust.

Best, Ted